B12 blood tests

Downtrodden Dad · Sep 9, 2020

Found our lambs to be short of Cobalt b12 Three years ago despite using vitamin drenches.
Have been using smartshot since and am very underwhelmed, I thought it would make a massive difference and it hasn't, lambs still have scabby ears and whenever they are in the pens once weaned they have a Cobalt drench which definitely helps. I did my own trials last year using a bolus and wasn't impressed by that either. Not sure what the answer is. Tempted to try some in the fertiliser next year.

ISCO · Sep 9, 2020

Downtrodden Dad said:
Found our lambs to be short of Cobalt b12 Three years ago despite using vitamin drenches.
Have been using smartshot since and am very underwhelmed, I thought it would make a massive difference and it hasn't, lambs still have scabby ears and whenever they are in the pens once weaned they have a Cobalt drench which defiantly helps. I did my own trials last year using a bolus and wasn't impressed by that either. Not sure what the answer is. Tempted to try some in the fertiliser next year.

I think it is very much what works for your situation. I have never seen a bolus do any good on our lambs but Smartshot does work for us as does Troyvit.

BAW · Sep 9, 2020

ISCO said:
I think it is very much what works for your situation. I have never seen a bolus do any good on our lambs but Smartshot does work for us as does Troyvit.

Is smartshot similar to a bolus in that you may have to give them a cobalt drench to boost them up to then maintain with the injection??

ISCO · Sep 9, 2020

BAW said:
Is smartshot similar to a bolus in that you may have to give them a cobalt drench to boost them up to then maintain with the injection??

We just give injection in June before we would have seen deficiency problems so don't drench. If you have a problem a drench may act more quickly and would do no harm.

Downtrodden Dad · Sep 9, 2020

BAW said:
Is smartshot similar to a bolus in that you may have to give them a cobalt drench to boost them up to then maintain with the injection??

We gave ours a drench at the same time as the smartshot with that reasoning in mind.

BAW · Sep 9, 2020

Downtrodden Dad said:
We gave ours a drench at the same time as the smartshot with that reasoning in mind.

And you thought it still didn’t do the job?

Macsky · Sep 9, 2020

I didn’t know scabby ears were a sign of cobalt deficiency, is this a well known thing?

tepapa · Sep 9, 2020

Macsky said:
I didn’t know scabby ears were a sign of cobalt deficiency, is this a well known thing?

Yes it is a common sign of cobalt deficiency

livestock 1 · Sep 9, 2020

Macsky said:
I didn’t know scabby ears were a sign of cobalt deficiency, is this a well known thing?

Yes. You can’t get them to do when they are short

neilo · Sep 9, 2020

tepapa said:
Yes it is a common sign of cobalt deficiency

Yes. That and scabby tears around the eyes ime.

Macsky · Sep 9, 2020

Every day’s a school day

Global ovine · Sep 9, 2020

Downtrodden Dad said:
Found our lambs to be short of Cobalt b12 Three years ago despite using vitamin drenches.
Have been using smartshot since and am very underwhelmed, I thought it would make a massive difference and it hasn't, lambs still have scabby ears and whenever they are in the pens once weaned they have a Cobalt drench which definitely helps. I did my own trials last year using a bolus and wasn't impressed by that either. Not sure what the answer is. Tempted to try some in the fertiliser next year.

@Downtrodden Dad I think you have done enough to see that the problem may not be Vit B12 deficiency or you are coming off a very low level, as both a Cobalt bolus and Smartshot B12 should have had effect. I suggest you consult your vet and look directly at skin problems such as zinc deficiency or photo sensitivity due to something in their diets.

Drenching with Cobalt is a very short term (a few days) treatment as what the rumen bugs don't use to manufacture Vit B12 just passes through the gut. The liver stores Vit B12, but the liver of a lamb which has been in a deficient state is very compromised to store Vit B12. Therefore to bring B12 levels right in those lambs showing classical deficiency symptoms they should be getting a constant top up of B12 by using either a Co bolus, smartshot B12 injection or Co applied as fertiliser or strip sprayed until the pasture levels become adequate.
Prevention is better than cure. In my experience, too many farmers treat lambs because they readily show symptoms, but neglect their ewes which affects lactation and ability to recover body condition. Which is why I am a fan for treating the farm with Cobalt, rather than a particular group of livestock, as it is so cost effective and less invasive to animals.

Macsky · Sep 9, 2020

Is there much cobalt/b12 in the ewes milk? If for example the ewes had been bolused already?

Downtrodden Dad · Sep 9, 2020

BAW said:
And you thought it still didn’t do the job?

I haven't blood tested them again since but the scabby ears are still there, and they do improve when they get drenched with Cobalt regularly

Downtrodden Dad · Sep 9, 2020

Global ovine said:
@Downtrodden Dad I think you have done enough to see that the problem may not be Vit B12 deficiency or you are coming off a very low level, as both a Cobalt bolus and Smartshot B12 should have had effect. I suggest you consult your vet and look directly at skin problems such as zinc deficiency or photo sensitivity due to something in their diets.

Drenching with Cobalt is a very short term (a few days) treatment as what the rumen bugs don't use to manufacture Vit B12 just passes through the gut. The liver stores Vit B12, but the liver of a lamb which has been in a deficient state is very compromised to store Vit B12. Therefore to bring B12 levels right in those lambs showing classical deficiency symptoms they should be getting a constant top up of B12 by using either a Co bolus, smartshot B12 injection or Co applied as fertiliser or strip sprayed until the pasture levels become adequate.
Prevention is better than cure. In my experience, too many farmers treat lambs because they readily show symptoms, but neglect their ewes which affects lactation and ability to recover body condition. Which is why I am a fan for treating the farm with Cobalt, rather than a particular group of livestock, as it is so cost effective and less invasive to animals.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it, I can't remember the blood levels at the time but I seem to remember the vet saying that they were really low in Cobalt, the zinc may be worth looking at, incidentally since testing the bloods we now give the ewes a Cobalt bolus as well. Strangely the mineral analysis of the grass doesn't show up a low level of Cobalt.

Global ovine · Sep 10, 2020

Macsky said:
Is there much cobalt/b12 in the ewes milk? If for example the ewes had been bolused already?

Cobalt bolussed ewes should have adequate Vit B12 levels in their milk for twins. Late weaned lambs where their diet is almost all Co deficient pasture could develop low levels. An adequately B12 charged liver should have reserves to last a month. However its like petrol, the faster they go (grow) the quicker it gets used.

livestock 1 · Sep 10, 2020

We have issues with lock up here too which complicates trace element correction to do with molybdenum

Al R · Sep 10, 2020

Macsky said:
I didn’t know scabby ears were a sign of cobalt deficiency, is this a well known thing?

Very.

Al R · Sep 10, 2020

Downtrodden Dad said:
We gave ours a drench at the same time as the smartshot with that reasoning in mind.

What age/weight did you Bolus? 25kg average their done here. It’s that beneficial that I’ll Bolus a 34kg single at 9/10 weeks which is 14 days from slaughter.
too many Bolus at weaning, I prefer most of my lambs eaten by weaning.

For the last few years (not this year) we’ve always left the odd single in a twin field un bolused but marked it accordingly that it wasn’t bolused. Probably 20 odd over the whole farm as a control, all would be much bigger than the twins in the same field when bolusing, I can guarantee you not one of those lambs unbolused will be in the first 2-3 draws of fat lambs with the Bolused twins overtaking them. This year I bolused everything and didn’t leave any out as a control.

Macsky · Sep 10, 2020

Al R said:
Very.

Well now I just feel stupid.

See a bit of it here, lambs get mineral drenched 3 times over the summer so maybe that’s just keeping a check on it, seriously considering a bolus or injection now

B12 blood tests

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