Herringbone with in shed feeder & poor throughput

Jdunn55 · Jan 24, 2021

Beef farmer said:
Good job wheat and soya are cheap.

#sustainability

Did lic say that for every £1 spent on feed it costs another .50p in costs to feed that.

Lic would say that wouldn't they though? They sell grazing semen and therefore want to encourage grazing cows not concentrate usage...

I didnt say wheat and soya are cheap, and I personally wouldn't want to be feeding 4t per cow but I know people that do, and I know far more people feeding 4t of cake per cow than I do feeding no cake per cow.
The point I was making was that feeding cake is cost effective to a point, otherwise why would a majority of farmers (including yourself!) feed it??

Chips · Jan 24, 2021

HasthorpeGrange said:
Definitely not option 4! You’ll probably never get cows back in the parlour again if it would work how I understand it to

Maybe not , after all that's exactly what happens in our milking robot and you just can't stop the cows coming back in that . Cows are quite smart when it comes to feed , in the robot if they don't leave 15seconds after the gate opens it will give her a tickle . Most of the slow to leave cows leave at 14.99999 seconds ! Don't see why they wouldn't be just as smart in a herringbone and work out it's fine while the gate is shut but once open if it rang a buzzer say 3 seconds before the shocker came on they would learn it's time to leave on the buzzer and not wait for the shock .

betweenthelines · Jan 24, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
Yes. Assuming a milk price of £0.28/litre and a cake price of £350/t you would have a 'profit' of £0.21/kg of cake fed, up to 8kg/cow/day fed anything more and this would decrease.

Maths:
Cake £350/t = £0.35/kg
1kg of cake = 2 litres
28ppl x 2 = £0.56
£0.56-£0.35=£0.21

How much you feed is up to you as the efficiency will start dropping off after 8kg of cake (ie: 9kg is unlikely to generate 18 litres) and obviously feeding too high a level can have negatives elsewhere but generally it is worthwhile feeding atleast some cake.

Couple of points

OP is in New Zealand, I very much doubt he's getting 28 ppl

Wellington or Wendron, grassed grass is the cheapest feed per kg/dm. If the OP reduces milking time by 50% by cutting out parlour feed, he's giving his cows a lot more time to graze-if he's got the grass for them!

Cows 'n grass · Jan 24, 2021

betweenthelines said:
Couple of points

OP is in New Zealand, I very much doubt he's getting 28 ppl

Wellington or Wendron, grassed grass is the cheapest feed per kg/dm. If the OP reduces milking time by 50% by cutting out parlour feed, he's giving his cows a lot more time to graze-if he's got the grass for them!

No, he's probably getting more. The Fonterra payout last year was $7.19/ kg ms. That works out about 2ppl better than Arla last year.

Cows 'n grass · Jan 24, 2021

We have the same problem with cow flow whenever I've tried feedings a cheaper blend. 95% of cows eat it fine but those 5% are reluctant to come in and no cow will walk past a full trough without stopping.

Aircooled · Jan 24, 2021

box said:
Morning
I'm not sure what kind of milking sheds/parlours you lot have over there, I assume something a bit more sophisticated than old herringbones & a single set of cups.

Anyway, this is the setup I'm currently working with - 22 cup herringbone with an in shed feed system (continuous bin, not individual bins per "bail", automatic cup removers and automatic teat sprayer. One person can put about 130 cows through per hour at this time of the year (mid summer).

Here's the issue: cups come off, the gate opens, a couple of cows walk out, the third or fourth one can't leave crumbs behind in the feed bin and ths cow holds up the whole row. Cows behind get grumpy, start shittting everywhere, the milker has to leave cupping the cows on the opposite row and move the cows out one by one. Similarly, once you've got the row cleared out, you've got to move every cow into position coming in because they stop and nibble on leftovers from the previous row. It doesn't seem to matter what product or what amount is being fed, there's always something left somewhere. The only way to stop this happening is to completely stop feeding, (which allows me to push over 200 cows through per hour).

I've talked with local parlour builders and feed system installers - no one is really interested in provding a solution, they're too busy making money fitting new systems to care about a small job like this.

My options so far are:
1 - Hinged bins that will fold up out of the way when the gate opens, using vacuum actuators (complicated)
2 - Hinged covers that fold down to cover the bin when the gate opens, using vacuum actuators (complicated)
3 - Flood wash system that clears the bin when the gate opens (easy to make and install but will result in some feed loss)
4 - High voltage chain or wire above the meal bin which energizes when the gate opens (it seems like a bad idea - would probably be a bit of fun though).

Thoughts? I'm leaning towards option 3 at the moment unless there are better options out there.

If one man is putting 130 through per/hr you're doing fine. In the meantime carry on and focus on other matters arising. ☺

Beef farmer · Jan 24, 2021

Cows 'n grass said:
We have the same problem with cow flow whenever I've tried feedings a cheaper blend. 95% of cows eat it fine but those 5% are reluctant to come in and no cow will walk past a full trough without stopping.

At what point does it become cheaper to install a feed pad and use an auger bucket and feed all the cows at once. A 35 ton bin and pig feeders would lay a fair pad.
Feed cheaper straights and increase cow flow/cleaner parlour.
The ideal is plenty of rain in the summer and just feed grass!
A lot of NZ would be feed pads, or is that changing?

dinderleat · Jan 24, 2021

HasthorpeGrange said:
On that basis would you feed cows 8kg up to dry off?

No more

Farmer Keith · Jan 24, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
Yes. Assuming a milk price of £0.28/litre and a cake price of £350/t you would have a 'profit' of £0.21/kg of cake fed, up to 8kg/cow/day fed anything more and this would decrease.

Maths:
Cake £350/t = £0.35/kg
1kg of cake = 2 litres
28ppl x 2 = £0.56
£0.56-£0.35=£0.21

How much you feed is up to you as the efficiency will start dropping off after 8kg of cake (ie: 9kg is unlikely to generate 18 litres) and obviously feeding too high a level can have negatives elsewhere but generally it is worthwhile feeding atleast some cake.

You’re wasted on farm, a career flogging cake looks a certainty.

Beef farmer · Jan 25, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
Lic would say that wouldn't they though? They sell grazing semen and therefore want to encourage grazing cows not concentrate usage...

I didnt say wheat and soya are cheap, and I personally wouldn't want to be feeding 4t per cow but I know people that do, and I know far more people feeding 4t of cake per cow than I do feeding no cake per cow.
The point I was making was that feeding cake is cost effective to a point, otherwise why would a majority of farmers (including yourself!) feed it??

We feed very little as soon as the cows have grazed grass in their diet. We feed cake in the wi ter because we cant make silage as potent as grazed grass.
At sub £200 its also cheap acres

box · Jan 25, 2021

Wow, more replies than I was expecting. What on earth is cake?

The main reason I'm feeding in the shed is because it's my only means of reliably getting minerals into every cow.

As an added bonus, it's profitble (for now), the cows don't get bloat, and seeing my little fat jerseys running to the shed to be milked just makes me smile.

From my experience, the only product worth feeding is PKE. Cows are "fully fed" on grass, then fed more in the shed.

Farmer Keith said:
Maybe it’s as simple as just putting a second man in there when it’s an issue

There aren't enough cows or cups to pay for a second man.

Beef farmer said:
Are you feeding a nut or pke?

1.5kg of PKE per milking with a dollop of molasses on top.

betweenthelines said:
Is it cost effective?

Yes

onesiedale said:
Are the cows going straight back out on to same paddock, fresh grazing or are they being held in a holding area?

Fresh paddock every time

Aircooled said:
If one man is putting 130 through per/hr you're doing fine. In the meantime carry on and focus on other matters arising. ☺

I start most milkings with a positive attitude like that......it's a different story when the last cups finally come off. The less time spent milking, the better.

Beef farmer said:
A lot of NZ would be feed pads, or is that changing?

Not really. The big operators have always had them, smaller farms have generally gone to in shed feeders.

onesiedale · Jan 25, 2021

box said:
What on earth is cake?

Its what dairy farmers spend money on to keep feed sales reps in a job!

onesiedale · Jan 25, 2021

box said:
1.5kg of PKE per milking with a dollop of molasses on top

As mentioned earlier. There may be too much pke for the cows to clean up while milking. Any dust left just lets the greedy ones wanting to hang around and get the last crumb.
Feeding less pke may help. Alternatively, if minerals is your big concern then maybe a high mineral nut (cake) will feed a lot cleaner and quicker. There'll be less bits for them to hang around for..

Beef farmer · Jan 25, 2021

Bolus the cows for minerals

Headless chicken · Jan 25, 2021

Surely trying to get 3kg PKE into a cow that’s already full on grass is only ever going to slow things down

betweenthelines · Jan 25, 2021

If your cows are "running to the shed" it's a fair bet that they stop grazing a bit earlier to leave room for the meal.

Stop the meal and they'll eat more grass. Bolus for minerals.

Jdunn55 · Jan 25, 2021

betweenthelines said:
If your cows are "running to the shed" it's a fair bet that they stop grazing a bit earlier to leave room for the meal.

Stop the meal and they'll eat more grass. Bolus for minerals.

But then instead of having an issue getting cows to leave the parlour you'll have an issue getting them in surely?

Dead Rabbits · Jan 25, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
But then instead of having an issue getting cows to leave the parlour you'll have an issue getting them in surely?

Very rare anyone feeds them n the barn over here. Quit that one since the 80s

Jdunn55 · Jan 25, 2021

Dead Rabbits said:
Very rare anyone feeds them n the barn over here. Quit that one since the 80s

So you dont have any in parlour feeders?
How do you get enough feed into them if you arent feeding any cake? The most you can ever get from forage is about 15kgdm (and that's with feed in front of them at all times being pushed up several times a day) intake which isnt enough for a friesian atleast?

Beef farmer · Jan 25, 2021

Jdunn55 said:
So you dont have any in parlour feeders?
How do you get enough feed into them if you arent feeding any cake? The most you can ever get from forage is about 15kgdm (and that's with feed in front of them at all times being pushed up several times a day) intake which isnt enough for a friesian atleast?

You can get more kgdm of grazed grass than that into a xbred.
Your to used to they fat lazy fresians.

A feed pad, feed them all before milking.

Herringbone with in shed feeder & poor throughput

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