Groundswell. Where is the press coverage?

neilo said:

How many people were involved in this event, and what proportion of the UK Ag industry does that represent?
Whilst many of you on this thread appear to be firm believers, and I would no doubt be interested in some of it myself, I would suggest that the vast majority of UK Ag isn’t particularly interested in what you have to say.
It will no doubt receive some reporting in the press, but it isn’t necessarily a cult that everyone should necessarily want to sign up to, regardless of how passionate some of the advocates appear to be.

There, I’ve said it. You may begin throwing stones now.

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Bertram said:

Interesting point.

I went, for the first time. Keen on hearing more about regenerative agriculture because a) I believe it's good to focus on long-term soil health, and b) I'm interested in hearing about any way in which I can decrease inputs and increase margins.

I came away feeling fairly positive. But there again, I leave Glastonbury with a renewed interest in live music. Groundswell is a rare get together of like minded people, all encouraging and reassuring each other that they're doing the right thing, so it's no wonder that there's a happy atmosphere.

But, when it comes to the same old issues that are debated on here, in the press, and even in the pub, I'm not really any further forward. Integrate sheep - but careful of flooding the market. Sell carbon credits if you're confident enough like @Clive - don't sell them if you're anyone else as the market's not there yet and you'll likely get stitched up by a land shark. No till works in my damp westcountry mud - no it doesn't. Sign up for ELMS/don't sign up for ELMS.

Of course it's all good debate but there was nothing that convinced me to significantly alter what I'm doing now.

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Tim W said:

I think that the convincing will be done by legislation limiting N inputs, limiting herbicide and pesticide usage
And by markets demanding alternative methods of production on environmental and animal welfare grounds

Worries over market flooding of sheep are a good example of this--
Simultaneously we will reduce sheep numbers in the more traditional areas and replace the sheep population with amenity/trees/access etc
Whilst moving the sheep to what are now more excusive arable areas
This ticks all the boxes and doesn't necessarily increase lamb numbers

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silverfox said:

A lot of this regen stuff is re inventing the wheel. Plenty of us around here that still plough ( because we know it works ), yet have mixed farms with grass, manure and the trendy cover crop, that we call a catch crop and graze sheep over winter . I could show you a farm locally that if he’d had rent to pay, would be out of business by now with their attempts at no till, with a poor cover crop that meant they missed to get wheat drilled.
And where were the big eastern based cereal growers now wanting a big pat on the back, while they stood around and let Black grass become rampant or didn’t ever put muck/ grass on their farms.
It’ll be a bad day for UK ag if this system gets HELPED over systems that work.

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silverfox said:

A lot of this regen stuff is re inventing the wheel. Plenty of us around here that still plough ( because we know it works ), yet have mixed farms with grass, manure and the trendy cover crop, that we call a catch crop and graze sheep over winter . I could show you a farm locally that if he’d had rent to pay, would be out of business by now with their attempts at no till, with a poor cover crop that meant they missed to get wheat drilled.
And where were the big eastern based cereal growers now wanting a big pat on the back, while they stood around and let Black grass become rampant or didn’t ever put muck/ grass on their farms.
It’ll be a bad day for UK ag if this system gets HELPED over systems that work.

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CopperBeech said:

The thing about when it came up, was a tad ridiculous and wasn’t a fear voiced by a sheep farmer.

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SilliamWhale said:

I don't think its re-inventing because the context today is different to 20 years ago and will be different again in 20 years hence.

I think farmers obviously should still be allowed to plough if they want, but there is no point in pretending it doesn't have cost in terms of soil quality and carbon loss because it does. I'd see a cover crop/ catch crop as the same thing anyway. But you can still have a good mixed farming system without ploughing, and ploughing doesn't help carbon and soil quality.

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neilo said:

Was he one of the sheep farmers from the uplands, who will need to be thrown under the bus if @Tim W ‘s prediction comes to fruition?

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neilo said:

Was he one of the sheep farmers from the uplands, who will need to be thrown under the bus if @Tim W ‘s prediction comes to fruition?

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neilo said:

It is reinventing the wheel, to the extent that most of those arable farms now looking for an on-trend quick fix used to be mixed farms, with livestock and sensible rotations.
Folding stock over cover crops, using fallows and rotational grazing are all nothing new, they are just being portrayed as such to wide eyed audiences.

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neilo said:

It is reinventing the wheel, to the extent that most of those arable farms now looking for an on-trend quick fix used to be mixed farms, with livestock and sensible rotations.
Folding stock over cover crops, using fallows and rotational grazing are all nothing new, they are just being portrayed as such to wide eyed audiences.

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Bertram said:

Interesting point.

I went, for the first time. Keen on hearing more about regenerative agriculture because a) I believe it's good to focus on long-term soil health, and b) I'm interested in hearing about any way in which I can decrease inputs and increase margins.

I came away feeling fairly positive. But there again, I leave Glastonbury with a renewed interest in live music. Groundswell is a rare get together of like minded people, all encouraging and reassuring each other that they're doing the right thing, so it's no wonder that there's a happy atmosphere.

But, when it comes to the same old issues that are debated on here, in the press, and even in the pub, I'm not really any further forward. Integrate sheep - but careful of flooding the market. Sell carbon credits if you're confident enough like @Clive - don't sell them if you're anyone else as the market's not there yet and you'll likely get stitched up by a land shark. No till works in my damp westcountry mud - no it doesn't. Sign up for ELMS/don't sign up for ELMS.

Of course it's all good debate but there was nothing that convinced me to significantly alter what I'm doing now.

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SilliamWhale said:

I don't think its re-inventing because the context today is different to 20 years ago and will be different again in 20 years hence.

I think farmers obviously should still be allowed to plough if they want, but there is no point in pretending it doesn't have cost in terms of soil quality and carbon loss because it does. I'd see a cover crop/ catch crop as the same thing anyway. But you can still have a good mixed farming system without ploughing, and ploughing doesn't help carbon and soil quality.

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CopperBeech said:

Nothing like a bit of melodrama on a Sunday afternoon is there

I think whatever way you like it, stocking rates have / are / will drop on hill units.

I don’t necessarily agree, but it appears to be the way it is going, and ultimately being honest how much finished lamb do hill farms produce ? A lot will sell stores, so has little bearing on the lamb market. But maybe those lambs will go south not into hoppers but cover crops who knows.

But it was actually a man from ABDB who said when being asked about grazing living mulches and cover crops that in order to avoid flooding the Market with lamb we could all run massive pet flocks of rare breed sheep which could live on farm till ten plus years old and do a job without contributing to the food chain.

Thought that a great suggestion from someone paid to build markets for our produce .......

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Ffermer Bach said:

Of course another way to look at it, is we could all have flocks of wethers producing wool, that is if the carbon/pollution costs of synthetic clothes were taken into account

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Ffermer Bach said:

Of course another way to look at it, is we could all have flocks of wethers producing wool, that is if the carbon/pollution costs of synthetic clothes were taken into account

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Ffermer Bach said:

Of course another way to look at it, is we could all have flocks of wethers producing wool, that is if the carbon/pollution costs of synthetic clothes were taken into account

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Tim W said:

Do you think that wool would compete with cotton/hemp/etc if synthetics were taxed?
Most wool products take a lot of labour/processing to make into something valuable

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