New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

Humble Village Farmer · Jan 18, 2022

Grass And Grain said:
Asking taxpayers for handouts isn't going to be popular unless they are getting something in return.

What is that something?

It could be quite simply BPS to put a bottom in farm profits and stability in a price volatile industry. Continuity of farm business survival and home produced food supply is a public good - a very important one.

It could be BPS to help UK farmers cope with cost of complying with good environmental and food regulations, and fact that many worldwide competitors are subsidised

It could be BPS to ensure we don't just offshore environmental, welfare or carbon issues.

It could be stewardship to promote carbon sequestration, healthy soils, habitats, water quality etc.

It could be some flood prevention or landscape change.

It could be grants for capital items (from the list of things THEY THINK we need ).

DEFRA need to get the mix of the above correct, and be mindful that BPS added directly to our profit/disposable spending power. There's a cost to getting SFI income, so that leaves us less cash in the bank. All from exactly the same amount of taxpayer spend.

The taxpayer probably won't think a public good is Mr Farmer buying a Range Rover from ag subsidies, but neither will they want bankrupt farmers and food shortages. Food supply won't wait for next year.

Alternatively, either insist imports meet our production standards, or let us rip out all the hedges, create mega fields, stuff the broilers in the sheds - and compete on a level playing field. Neither of those will happen, so I conclude HMG should continue to pay us subs if they want a UK agricultural industry.

They just need to get the mix and method of subsidy correct. I think DEFRA are currently on the wrong path.

They are, but at a lower rate and with a different set of conditions than under the bps.

I really think a UK agricultural industry depends on getting a fairer share of the retail value, because without that, we might as well pack up and take the rewilding money while it's there.

Two Tone · Jan 18, 2022

Jimdog1 said:
We are the only industry on Earth that sequesters CO2 from the atmosphere and creates food, vital to human life.

Best line in 43 pages. Should be shouting it from the rooftops. (Courtesy of Two-tone)

I stole part of it from Harry Metcalfe as in Harry’s Farm.
Hopefully, because his YouTube channel is so popular, he is shouting it from the rooftops. As should we all.

Humble Village Farmer · Jan 18, 2022

Two Tone said:
I stole part of it from Harry Metcalfe as in Harry’s Farm.
Hopefully, because his YouTube channel is so popular, he is shouting it from the rooftops. As should we all.

Let's be honest though, farms don't just absorb carbon, they also burn and emit in quite large quantities.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Let's be honest though, farms don't just absorb carbon, they also burn and emit in quite large quantities.

Many, but not all.

Two Tone · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Let's be honest though, farms don't just absorb carbon, they also burn and emit in quite large quantities.

Maybe, but we sequester many, many time more than we emit. That is how food is made.

It seems to me that we are constantly being drip fed all the bad things we allegedly do. So much so that even we believe them, unchallenged.

Let’s face it, our industry has been in a mess. We are running round harder and harder in ever decreasing circles, trying to make it viable and it can be very difficult, if not impossible to make it profitable without something like BPS.

And now, ELMs is yet another kick in the teeth to most of us!

It is also obvious that Harry Metcalfe cannot make a living for himself and his son on the 450 acres they farm and substantially rely on outside income. The only thing I might fault him on is the fact that many who watch his channel will naturally think that all farmers are like this and that all of us are quite happy to continue run their farms as a sort of charity, providing cheap food (And sequestering CO2 for free!) as if we are some sort of “benevolent fund”!

Jimdog1 · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Let's be honest though, farms don't just absorb carbon, they also burn and emit in quite large quantities.

Glass half empty......

Jimdog1 · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
Let's be honest though, farms don't just absorb carbon, they also burn and emit in quite large quantities.

Not quite so punchy shouted off a rooftop either!

Two Tone · Jan 18, 2022

ELMs is nothing more than the Government trying to fool the Public that it is actually doing something to combat Climate change and CO2 emissions, so as to make all that Public feel better for themselves.

It is the biggest con the Public will have ever been exposed to.
Talk about “Public Good”, in reality it will be nothing more than a huge “Public Con”!

Can there ever have been a bigger “Passing the Buck” in History?

ajd132 · Jan 18, 2022

Dave645 said:
Nature capital markets are a scam, you only have carbon credits for sale if the farm is carbon negative, anything else is a scam and unless the government is happy with that scam, they will block it.
I would, they do more harm than good.

now if your farm is, great have at it.

Natural capital is not just about carbon.

Vader · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
There are reportedly quite a number of farms whose profits are lower than the bps though.

If you own your farm, then the bps is a bonus.
If your renting its critical to profit.

Nearly · Jan 18, 2022

Vader said:
If you own your farm, then the bps is a bonus.
If your renting its critical to landlord's profit.

Vader · Jan 18, 2022

ajd132 said:
Why should tax payers give you money for a way of life, especially as you have just admitted you don’t want to change anything!

They give it to dole muppets who happily don't work and give nothing back.
A least farmers provide food for their tax money.

Vader · Jan 18, 2022

egbert said:
Not many of us manage that trick

I've a good AHA....but those on FBTs? Hmm....how does Janet square that hole?

She don't.
She don't even know what shape the hole is, or even if their is a hole...
She and her team know little about the subject they designing a scheme for.

Grass And Grain · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
They are, but at a lower rate and with a different set of conditions than under the bps.

I really think a UK agricultural industry depends on getting a fairer share of the retail value, because without that, we might as well pack up and take the rewilding money while it's there.

We'll make a start on that by gaining access to our markets at least cost, and forming a food assurance structure which either accepts a base standard, or pays a genuine premium if said mill wishes to have a plethora of assurance and environmental standards.

The Danes get closer to their marketplace with successful cooperatives, so why can't we.

Really I ought to be selling my SSSI pesticide free hay in little bags to pet owners. Maybe rolling oats and selling to horse owners, or wheat to backyard chicken keepers etc. atm we make more brass for the time involved by servicing vacuum coolers and selling cold stores to the veg boys. So we'll probably concentrate on that (rather than putting hay in little bags), but we should really put more effort into adding value to our ag produce.

Suppose I'm my own worst enemy by not growing milling wheat, but on our scale have decided the crop segregation isn't worth the bother. Absolutely think it is if you have flour mills in proximity and can often hit milling premiums. We have good demand and £10 North East premiums for feed wheat. Sedamyl at Selby, Vivergo at Hull, big pig area, Cramswick expanding pig herd all the time, Mosey pigs, not far to beef regions.

All very interesting though, and gives us a reason to go to work on a morning.

Grass And Grain · Jan 18, 2022

To stay on topic. Does nature friendly farming from LNR give us a marketing edge? I guess so, but then if everyone does it, it becomes the standard.

tepapa · Jan 18, 2022

Vader said:
She and her team know little about the subject they designing a scheme for.

But they're designing a scheme based on what some ministers in government want for the UK. It doesn't matter to them if farmers like it or not as long as they hit the brief theyve been given.

The SFI is DEFRA trying micro manage farmers, you must so this and not do that and if your lucky will give you a pat on the back.
LNR is stewardship and what is to be expected when the ministers said the budget was going towards the environment.
But LR is fraud and diverting money allocated to farmers to other government commitments because basically there's no money left in the coffers.

Grass And Grain · Jan 18, 2022

tepapa said:
But they're designing a scheme based on what some ministers in government want for the UK. It doesn't matter to them if farmers like it or not as long as they hit the brief theyve been given.

The SFI is DEFRA trying micro manage farmers, you must so this and not do that and if your lucky will give you a pat on the back.
LNR is stewardship and what is to be expected when the ministers said the budget was going towards the environment.
But LR is fraud and diverting money allocated to farmers to other government commitments because basically there's no money left in the coffers.

SFI looks to me like it's designed to help hit the Government's climate/carbon targets, and get farmers to do it for next to nothing.

andybk · Jan 18, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
I've reread your post and see your point.

I also agree, as you have suggested, that the subsidy doesn't stay long on the farm. I wonder how the supply and service sectors will fare after the subsidy disappears altogether

Unless you are part of the charities who use theirs to lobby for yet more control of the budget , Doubt they put much into local business or economy , similar v large non farming landowners .

tepapa · Jan 18, 2022

Grass And Grain said:
SFI looks to me like it's designed to help hit the Government's climate/carbon targets, and get farmers to do it for next to nothing.

And instead of talking to farmers and saying, we know we've not really looked after you very well in the past but we've gone and set some climate targets we need to meet and we can't do that without your help, they're trying to do it on the sly for peanuts.

Humble Village Farmer · Jan 18, 2022

Grass And Grain said:
we should really put more effort into adding value to our ag produce.

It's catch 22 though isn't it? Staff cut to the bone so no spare time to develop nice little retail schemes on the side.

How are the heifers doing by the way?

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