Grass to grass reseed

rusty · Jul 23, 2023

Our weed spray is the Roundup to kill the ley off. By direct drilling hopefully no weed seeds are germinated and you grow what you drill. With herbal keys I don’t really see any other way unless complicating it with stale seed beds.

DairyNerd · Jul 23, 2023

crashbox said:
It's not about the money.
A) no clover/herb safe sprays
B) risk/damage to environment
C) unnecessary chemical encourages resistance

I'm sure there are other good reasons not to spray.

You could add that the spray manufacturers are not exactly known for their philanthropic tendencies. I also feel it is like all farm inputs, if you can find a way to do without it then why not do without it.

DairyNerd · Jul 23, 2023

ollie989898 said:
A) no longer the case- corteva launching new clover safe sprays.
B) That is nonsense- you've just torn up a piece of land and put grass in it. It's a monoculture however much you intend to pretend otherwise. Might as well be an open-cast coal mine for all the environmental benefit cultivated grass land is. You're falling for your own ideology here.
C) All grassland products contain multiple herbicides and are used very infrequently compared to arable farmers. How are you intending to save the planet? At any rate, a clean ley will last far longer anyway resulting in less reseeding and greater outputs in terms of yield per unit area so less land needed- nature will win this way and this is the argument all conventional agriculture should cling to.

My fields are not a monoculture I have ryegrass, white clover, docks, thistles to name a few.... The birds love the thistles in the winter....

In the pit · Jul 23, 2023

Yes let’s throw some sprays at this,to do what ?? Salemens or as others would say parasites

som farmer · Jul 23, 2023

somewhere in the middle of this

yes weeds do reduce productivity of a new ley, no doubt about that, and if fairly large when sprayed off, they do leave a hole, which will be filled in with weeds or clover.

In the good/bad old days, workers would be sent to 'deweed' grass fields, we used to have a 'dock puller' to get the roots out, it was a great wire strainer.

Those days are long gone, but it is interesting to see some free acres of pp we cut only, after about 25 years, of sometimes 1 cut/yr, we have gone through the feck all there yrs, and production is quite sensible, no fert applied, but the biggest difference, docks/thistles etc, after the initial burst, have declined to be no problem.

So the lesson there, is cultivation brings weed seeds to the surface, they germinate, and we go full circle again !

In todays political anti farming stance, permanent pastures, or very long leys, would be their choice, and well managed pp stores more carbon than trees. For us, pp has to produce quality and quantity.

Back to weeds in swards. Glyphosate and min-til, or d/drill are a good way to clean up, full cultivations just bring more weed seeds to the surface.
So its down to sowing just grass, and spraying before adding clover herbs etc, or the clover safe sprays.

There is no guarantee those chemicals will not hurt the environment, just as the diesel used in full cultivations, are know to damage it, and the soil microbiology etc.

Best way is to minimise use, and keep topping - but using diesel.

PP producing quality, and quantity is the ideal solution for everybody, but we are not at that stage of management yet.

crashbox · Jul 23, 2023

ollie989898 said:
A) no longer the case- corteva launching new clover safe sprays.
B) That is nonsense- you've just torn up a piece of land and put grass in it. It's a monoculture however much you intend to pretend otherwise. Might as well be an open-cast coal mine for all the environmental benefit cultivated grass land is. You're falling for your own ideology here.
C) All grassland products contain multiple herbicides and are used very infrequently compared to arable farmers. How are you intending to save the planet? At any rate, a clean ley will last far longer anyway resulting in less reseeding and greater outputs in terms of yield per unit area so less land needed- nature will win this way and this is the argument all conventional agriculture should cling to.

A) Is it safe for all clovers inc. alsike, balansa, red? Plantain? Trefoil? Chicory? Burnet? Sainfoin? Lucerne? Yarrow? All grasses?
B) Is tonight's grazing a monoculture?

C) It is not a binary choice between farming and the environment; thinking outside the box can allow both to thrive, especially in a grassland situation.

I am a conventional farmer, and use herbicides, but use them very judiciously.

ollie989898 · Jul 24, 2023

In the pit said:
Yes let’s throw some sprays at this,to do what ?? Salemens or as others would say parasites

Great photos. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove though.

Lewis · Jul 24, 2023

Can you spray off with roundup and drill the same day? Or how soon can you drill after spraying with roundup?
Did wholecrop last week and with plenty of moisture about maybe better to just spray and DD than mess around cultivating.

serf · Jul 24, 2023

In the pit said:
Yes let’s throw some sprays at this,to do what ?? Salemens or as others would say parasites

Apart from a bit of redshank there's not many weeds in there anyway so why would you want to spray that and also knock out the clover

looks a bit of a non argument using them leys as an argument about spraying weeds out of grass

In the pit · Jul 24, 2023

serf said:
Apart from a bit of redshank there's not many weeds in there anyway so why would you want to spray that and also knock out the clover

looks a bit of a non argument using them leys as an argument about spraying weeds out of grass

There seem to be salesmen on here that want you reseeding leys every 3/5 years and spraying for every weed going and if you don’t your leys will look terrible
The pictures I posted are of a new ley drilled may after grass being ploughed over ( not sprayed off ) and worked down and seeded it’s been grazed once and is gonna be grazed this week

In the pit · Jul 24, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Great photos. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove though.

No need to spray
No holes that I can find were weeds have taken over

ollie989898 · Jul 24, 2023

In the pit said:
No need to spray
No holes that I can find were weeds have taken over

Yes, I too can walk around the countryside and find 5 square metres that are perfect. I suppose you've never had any issues or failures or anything of the sort. God just smiles on you, I suppose it helps that you are always right also and grass just grows perfectly in wherever it is you are.

In the pit · Jul 24, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Yes, I too can walk around the countryside and find 5 square metres that are perfect. I suppose you've never had any issues or failures or anything of the sort. God just smiles on you, I suppose it helps that you are always right also and grass just grows perfectly in wherever it is you are.

1 failure in 30 years plus and that was a contractor who came to direct drill some Italian with a vaderstad drill and didn’t alter ithe depth from drilling wheat in the morning and put the seed down way to deep
If you know your farms land and what you’re doing you shouldn’t get a failure

kp_n_plghng · Jul 24, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Spring or autumn decisions should not be driven by broad leaved weed concerns. Just spray all new leys.

You didn't think writing this would trigger some responses?

FWIW I am in the no spray camp this season as well. Not because I'm trying to be a hero but because my agronomist hasn't advised it. I have had years where I've done it, but mostly not.
Some of us are blessed with very clean land in the first place.

I thought it was widely accepted that Autumn was the best time (on average) for establishing grass.

In the pit · Jul 24, 2023

kp_n_plghng said:
You didn't think writing this would trigger some responses?

FWIW I am in the no spray camp this season as well. Not because I'm trying to be a hero but because my agronomist hasn't advised it. I have had years where I've done it, but mostly not.
Some of us are blessed with very clean land in the first place.

I thought it was widely accepted that Autumn was the best time (on average) for establishing grass.

I’d have thought some people would have learnt after two dry spells in two years that a spring reseed is potentially gonna fail ,and if it does it just adds more pressure on the rest of the acreage having a field with nothing in it

crashbox · Jul 24, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Great photos. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove though.

Response to:

ollie989898 said:
That is nonsense- you've just torn up a piece of land and put grass in it. It's a monoculture however much you intend to pretend otherwise.

ollie989898 · Jul 24, 2023

kp_n_plghng said:
You didn't think writing this would trigger some responses?

FWIW I am in the no spray camp this season as well. Not because I'm trying to be a hero but because my agronomist hasn't advised it. I have had years where I've done it, but mostly not.
Some of us are blessed with very clean land in the first place.

I thought it was widely accepted that Autumn was the best time (on average) for establishing grass.

I like controversy.

I've had great success with spring reseeds. Weeds grow in the autumn pretty well also. In fact, I'd say that chickweed seems to preferentially germinate in autumn compared to the spring which is more biased toward the polygonum sorts which look worse to the eye but they don't cover the ground as rapidly as chickweed can.

ollie989898 · Jul 24, 2023

crashbox said:
Response to:

Oh so the extremely limited ecological value of intensive grassland is entirely ameliorated by adding some clover. I suppose the crane flies might like it.

digger64 · Jul 26, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Oh so the extremely limited ecological value of intensive grassland is entirely ameliorated by adding some clover. I suppose the crane flies might like it.

bull got out with neighbours cows when getting him out noticed large, tall, pre flowering thistles had been sprayed - but clover seemed ok underneath them , what chemical could he have used ?

easy farming · Jul 27, 2023

digger64 said:
bull got out with neighbours cows when getting him out noticed large, tall, pre flowering thistles had been sprayed - but clover seemed ok underneath them , what chemical could he have used ?

Spot spray?

Grass to grass reseed

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