labour planning to scrap agricultural property relief

010101 · Sep 30, 2023

glasshouse said:
Subsidies capped at £50,000 would be a start.
Farm houses designated for farmers only would also help

Emotionally, those are two good points.
Practically they falter.
The Common Agricultural Policy was conceptualised to harmonise wage rates across a large trading bloc. To define a spurious cap on the level of payment of a grossly distorted legacy of the original subsidy is arbitrary at best, if not mendacious from some viewpoints.
Local councils have no chance defining ab initio if someone intends to farm or not.
Unless farming itself is a justifiable monopoly occupation, you are trying to define the unknowable.

glasshouse · Sep 30, 2023

010101 said:
Emotionally, those are two good points.
Practically they falter.
The Common Agricultural Policy was conceptualised to harmonise wage rates across a large trading bloc. To define a spurious cap on the level of payment of a grossly distorted legacy of the original subsidy is arbitrary at best, if not mendacious from some viewpoints.
Local councils have no chance defining ab initio if someone intends to farm or not.
So unless farming itself is a justifiable monopoly occupation, you are trying to define the undefinable.

Perfectly possible to do
And now being talked about with the conflict between airbnb and rural housing needs. Pleny ag restricted property about already
There is already capping of subs, its just too high

soapsud · Sep 30, 2023

ajd132 said:
That’s just reality. The only way you can stop the ambitious expansion minded people is by changing the law to say no one is allowed to farm more than 500 acres.
The people around here who have capitalised on contract farming for the last 30 years, are the ones if it ceases to be a means of farming who will take the risk to borrow or stump up the cash to rent or buy the farms, like they have already been doing for years by taking risks expanding into contract farming.
Your dream will not happen unless there’s a huge change in the law and the whole food system.

Enjoy it whilst you can. I understand your point of land ownership and possession. It's a generational mindset. The notion of property will change once

diesel gets to £5 a litre. The who has what and what they do about it will be about brain and brawn not nuts and bolts.

Bossfarmer · Sep 30, 2023

ajd132 said:
It will make zero difference to helping smaller farmers. the same laws of competition apply, I cannot see how anything would change in relation to expansion and scale.
no offence but a small farm isn’t going to start out-bidding a velcourt or a px farms.
The ones that have aggressively grown over the last 30 years will carry on, those who haven’t won’t. Land being abit cheaper isn’t suddenly going to change the mentalities of people.

depends how u look at it, i know 200 acre farms with 8 or 9 cottages, if land collapses to 2/3k an acre such assets or buy to lets will likely be sold as be able to buy up big blocks of land if the owners wish

lot of the big contract farmers have no real assets to sell other than hp machinery which isnt theirs, ive 600k worth of cattle on farm i can cash in, lot of it tax free under herd basis, anyone on a mixed farm will cash in livestock if cheap ground comes up for sale next to them

ollie989898 · Sep 30, 2023

Land ain't gonna collapse, not whilst inheritance tax relief is a thing on anything agricultural. It's too much of a temptation for the ultra-wealthy.

Allow roll over relief on everything business. Do away with inheritance tax and you would get more business growth and an agricultural industry that wasn't perpetually being crippled by folk in it to make a loss or hide money from the tax man. No more Dysons unless the bloke has an addiction to concrete and shiny paint.

ajd132 · Sep 30, 2023

Bossfarmer said:
depends how u look at it, i know 200 acre farms with 8 or 9 cottages, if land collapses to 2/3k an acre such assets or buy to lets will likely be sold as be able to buy up big blocks of land if the owners wish

lot of the big contract farmers have no real assets to sell other than hp machinery which isnt theirs, ive 600k worth of cattle on farm i can cash in, lot of it tax free under herd basis, anyone on a mixed farm will cash in livestock if cheap ground comes up for sale next to them

Why didn’t they do that 20 years ago?

010101 · Sep 30, 2023

ajd132 said:
Why didn’t they do that 20 years ago?

I think there would be a differential in the asset prices that did not exist 20 yr back.

ajd132 · Sep 30, 2023

010101 said:
I think there would be a differential in the asset prices that did not exist 20 yr back.

That’s true

010101 · Sep 30, 2023

The generations that hold the farms are not homogenous.
The first one that built it or bought it, takes care of the land and infrastructure.
The second lacks the edge of the first and the business suffers. Because they inherited their luck they don't have the respect of others.
The third generation tries to be socially accepted, unlike their parents, and often decides to become less isolated socially, and sells.

Huno · Sep 30, 2023

010101 said:
The generations that hold the farms are not homogenous.
The first one that built it or bought it, takes care of the land and infrastructure.
The second lacks the edge of the first and the business suffers. Because they inherited their luck they don't have the respect of others.
The third generation tries to be socially accepted, unlike their parents, and often decides to become less isolated socially, and sells.

amd tenant farmers go on forever

Huno · Sep 30, 2023

010101 said:
The generations that hold the farms are not homogenous.
The first one that built it or bought it, takes care of the land and infrastructure.
The second lacks the edge of the first and the business suffers. Because they inherited their luck they don't have the respect of others.
The third generation tries to be socially accepted, unlike their parents, and often decides to become less isolated socially, and sells.

6th generation tenant farmers dont care about any of the above!!

midlandslad · Oct 1, 2023

Agricultural property relief only benefits landlords anyway, real farmers get business property relief.

Punch · Oct 1, 2023

Real farmers might get both :scratchhead:

glasshouse · Oct 1, 2023

ajd132 said:
Why didn’t they do that 20 years ago?

I dont think any of us predicted the money printing and near zero interest rates that sprung from 2008 crash, or the resultant asset bubbles.
Who knew that economic rules were just for show and money could just be conjured up?

Punch · Oct 1, 2023

It’s the same with women. If I knew then what I know now

goodevans · Oct 1, 2023

ajd132 said:
That’s just reality. The only way you can stop the ambitious expansion minded people is by changing the law to say no one is allowed to farm more than 500 acres.
The people around here who have capitalised on contract farming for the last 30 years, are the ones if it ceases to be a means of farming who will take the risk to borrow or stump up the cash to rent or buy the farms, like they have already been doing for years by taking risks expanding into contract farming.
Your dream will not happen unless there’s a huge change in the law and the whole food system.

I totally agree with what you say and a business not going forward is one that is going back,but you will need a large field to park your arrogance in

ajd132 · Oct 1, 2023

goodevans said:
I totally agree with what you say and a business not going forward is one that is going back,but you will need a large field to park your arrogance in

Really? I was just pointing out what seems pretty obvious…the sad fact is other than an extreme change in the law and food system this dream some have of lots of small family farms isn’t going to happen. We are a small family farm.

Huno · Oct 1, 2023

Scrap APR alongside BPS and keep BPR and SFI for real working farmers? From a non farming taxpayers perspective why wouldnt that be an opposition election manifesto item??

010101 · Oct 1, 2023

ajd132 said:
Really? I was just pointing out what seems pretty obvious…the sad fact is other than an extreme change in the law and food system this dream some have of lots of small family farms isn’t going to happen. We are a small family farm.

A change in the law or food system would come from a change in the common knowledge mindset in respect of what the concept of social progress is, and what it means for the general public.
Do enough of us have the time to ponder our position and our actions coupled with the resolve to sacrifice our present for an uncertain future?
No, because if you think that big politics won't use your best intentions for it's own insider goals, then you aren't paying attention.

goodevans · Oct 1, 2023

ajd132 said:
Really? I was just pointing out what seems pretty obvious…the sad fact is other than an extreme change in the law and food system this dream some have of lots of small family farms isn’t going to happen. We are a small family farm.

Sorry,I shouldn't of said it ,and one of those moments you click reply and wish you hadnt

labour planning to scrap agricultural property relief

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page