Heated conversation about floodwater

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
Had a conversation with a couple this afternoon about floodwater,
They was saying it was better to flood, farmland than towns and cities and villages, which sometimes I agree with (as long as it disappears as fast as it comes ) they were saying it better to slow
floodwater down and achieve this to sacrifice farmland.
Then the conversation got into river dredging, and farmers like myself need to stop cleaning out ditches now . And help slow water down. And so on , having right old go,I felt like I was taking the brunt off them. ,with them knowing bugger all about anything, just living in their little cottage, with postage stamp garden. Listening to much to professors of nothing, social media, newspapers and listening to much to the good work of the EA .
So of I went ,
I may not, know everything.

But this is, where I would start.
First job dredge and clean out all the rivers, streams and ditches so water would get away quicker and it would empty this big landscape you are looking at called a sponge which his full at the moment. because it cannot get away because the flow is too slow in the rivers, and when it’s not raining, it can start to dry out for the next rainstorm.

You cannot do that, think of all the wildlife habitat you will be destroying.

It will get over it.
So you think floored farm land isn’t


destroy habitat for all the wild creatures,
I wouldn’t like to think how many millions of creature it as drowned
Earthworms, all the living bugs in soil, All the hibernating animals, so I throw some in which they could think about .
Lizards, newt , shrew, field mice, toads,frogs, hedgehogs , stoats , weasels , bumblebees and loads birds losing their feeding ground, would you like me to keep going.

so you’re thinking ,it is ok to flood farmland for the sake of a bit of habitat in a river is ok ,please think again please, because I think your way of thinking you are murdering wildlife by the millions.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
As the saying goes, they went off with a tail between their legs. I do not think they will be speaking to me for awhile .
They went back with a bit more education, what they started with.
I had a similar thing with some new arrivals, but about badgers; them telling me that '...the badgers were here first...' me telling them that the badgers were everywhere first, and my fields were here before their house and office and school and hospital etc., they haven't spoken to me since... I'm surviving. :joyful:
 

mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.
 

Thick Farmer

Member
Location
West Wales
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.
Dredging should start at the estuary and continue upstream from there.

If your toilet blocks you don’t keep shitting in it, you unblock everything downstream of the blockage and then life goes on.
 

Wesley

Member
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.
Thats the attitude, look after yourself, f’ everyone else who lives upstream of you 🙄
 

Simon Chiles

DD Moderator
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.

That’s all very well until someone downstream of you decides that they’re going to slow the flow/dam up the river.
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
I had a similar thing with some new arrivals, but about badgers; them telling me that '...the badgers were here first...' me telling them that the badgers were everywhere first, and my fields were here before their house and office and school and hospital etc., they haven't spoken to me since... I'm surviving. :joyful:
Does the same argument work for beavers?
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.
I don’t really follow this logic because once a sponge is full it’s full and the water will flow anyway. Your suggestion would mean that you flood the uplands as well as your self.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding.”

Well by using the same toilet/sewer analogy as already mentioned in this thread….

If a sewer overflows in London because it’s blocked with fatbergs and wet wipes, should Thames Water unblock the sewer….or should all London inhabitants be told that they need to slow the flow from their own toilets to stop the sewer overflowing?
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Does the same argument work for beavers?
Ha! I don't call for the destruction of all badgers, the very thought of their being extinct is horrible for me. I have no problem with animals causing a problem being culled, or other mitigating actions being taken.

My advocating for beavers is, as with other so-called 'rewilding', for where it is safe and practicable. I don't suggest they should be everywhere, but there are plenty of places where they will do nothing to inconvenience anyone.

And, of course, we all think that we should be able to do pretty much what we want on our own lands, if a group of contiguous landowners on a water course want to have beavers, why shouldn't they? They aren't forcing others to have them, and any 'inconvenience' and loss on them...
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
Ha! I don't call for the destruction of all badgers, the very thought of their being extinct is horrible for me. I have no problem with animals causing a problem being culled, or other mitigating actions being taken.

My advocating for beavers is, as with other so-called 'rewilding', for where it is safe and practicable. I don't suggest they should be everywhere, but there are plenty of places where they will do nothing to inconvenience anyone.

And, of course, we all think that we should be able to do pretty much what we want on our own lands, if a group of contiguous landowners on a water course want to have beavers, why shouldn't they? They aren't forcing others to have them, and any 'inconvenience' and loss on them...
All very idealogical. You know that in practice tho reintroduced species are far more likely to be foisted upon is with very little in the way of damage mitigation allowed.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
All very idealogical. You know that in practice tho reintroduced species are far more likely to be foisted upon is with very little in the way of damage mitigation allowed.
I am familiar with Scots Law, but have no training in it; nonetheless, I know that there are many instances where the theory and the fact do not overlap, yet that is not necessarily a good reason to call for the law's rescission. I make no claim that perfect practice is in effect, but that doesn't stop we wanting it to be. (y)
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
I am familiar with Scots Law, but have no training in it; nonetheless, I know that there are many instances where the theory and the fact do not overlap, yet that is not necessarily a good reason to call for the law's rescission. I make no claim that perfect practice is in effect, but that doesn't stop we wanting it to be. (y)
You’re dreaming, and damning anyone who disagrees with you.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
I've said it before, any dredging or drainage upstream of my farm means we get bigger and faster floods. You will never be able to dredge enough downstream to make a hapeth of difference. Slow the flow in the hills and the lowlands will have less flooding. Our river has only ever been dredged for boats.

Other areas with other topography will differ.
Why would you dredge a tidal river system to solve a flooding problem when the far easier solution is to install a tidal barrage that can be raised to stop the incoming tide. The technology has been well proven on the Thames barrier and could easily be applied to Rivers like the Humber and Severn solving flooding in places like York and Gloucester.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Dredging should start at the estuary and continue upstream from there.

If your toilet blocks you don’t keep shitting in it, you unblock everything downstream of the blockage and then life goes on.
Absolutely, you have to ensure the water can get out to sea at high and low tide.
It's amazing how many people don't realise this and think you can just dig ditches and rivers deeper. I swear they think all the water just drops off a big cliff into the sea.
They want it off their land as quick as possible and care little where it goes.

The fact that the OP only sometimes agrees it's better to flood fields than towns, cities and villages is mind boggling.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
I don’t really follow this logic because once a sponge is full it’s full and the water will flow anyway. Your suggestion would mean that you flood the uplands as well as your self.
Here on the central South Island we have almost unrestricted drainage from the Southern Alps. In order to cope with it the rivers are a mile wide in places.
The destruction this fast-moving water causes is something to see, washing away roads, rail lines and bridges. When it gets to the river mouths at high tide, it just stops, everything backs up and low-level settlements are flooded. It does often then leave after a couple of low tides, but the damage is done by then.

Also worth remembering if the ground stops holding water nothing will grow after a dry week.

I do agree more needs to be done to get rid of the water in the UK, but it must start at sea level.
 
Had a conversation with a couple this afternoon about floodwater,
They was saying it was better to flood, farmland than towns and cities and villages, which sometimes I agree with (as long as it disappears as fast as it comes ) they were saying it better to slow
floodwater down and achieve this to sacrifice farmland.
Then the conversation got into river dredging, and farmers like myself need to stop cleaning out ditches now . And help slow water down. And so on , having right old go,I felt like I was taking the brunt off them. ,with them knowing bugger all about anything, just living in their little cottage, with postage stamp garden. Listening to much to professors of nothing, social media, newspapers and listening to much to the good work of the EA .
So of I went ,
I may not, know everything.

But this is, where I would start.
First job dredge and clean out all the rivers, streams and ditches so water would get away quicker and it would empty this big landscape you are looking at called a sponge which his full at the moment. because it cannot get away because the flow is too slow in the rivers, and when it’s not raining, it can start to dry out for the next rainstorm.

You cannot do that, think of all the wildlife habitat you will be destroying.

It will get over it.
So you think floored farm land isn’t


destroy habitat for all the wild creatures,
I wouldn’t like to think how many millions of creature it as drowned
Earthworms, all the living bugs in soil, All the hibernating animals, so I throw some in which they could think about .
Lizards, newt , shrew, field mice, toads,frogs, hedgehogs , stoats , weasels , bumblebees and loads birds losing their feeding ground, would you like me to keep going.

so you’re thinking ,it is ok to flood farmland for the sake of a bit of habitat in a river is ok ,please think again please, because I think your way of thinking you are murdering wildlife by the millions.
Its not rocket science but might not be a good idea to build towns let alone a city on a flood plain, do so at your own peril but don't expect rural or agricultural areas to be sacrificed because of a planning/council derived fúck up.
 

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