Sheepy musings

yoki

Member
That’s a good analogy, the reason I started the thread was more to see if using that block to almost mob graze would be beneficial rather than shutting fields down for mowing and still having to buy extra fodder in.
We are all sda land and quite poor at that , apart from the two lower 3 acre fields and the 15 acres to the right of them , it’s all steep.
There’s no arable it’s all permanent pastures.
I am just trying to look at other methods, as we move towards no subs ( as such) buying in fodder means I am not going mad bodging old hay making tackle and waiting for the baling contractors, I could also let one of the tractors go
I think 'advice' in farming will always be necessarily generalisations, or in some cases scientific generalisations, and the farmer will then see how those basics can be applied to his own circumstances, land quantity, land quality, aims, help available, even his/her own personal mindset/temperament, etc, etc.

The farmer who can farm in a way which blends all those variables as cohesively as possible will be farming in a way which is right for him/her.

But it's a very individualistic situation.
 

yoki

Member
Good stuff, this explains why shutting up good grass in the summer for deferred grazing of ewes in the winter is not very efficient IMO
Glad someone found it useful, apparently it's a book which is now quite difficult to obtain unfortunately (or so I've been told!).

Although as ever with such things, the trick is matching it to your own personal circumstances in as practical a manner as possible.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Glad someone found it useful, apparently it's a book which is now quite difficult to obtain unfortunately (or so I've been told!).

Although as ever with such things, the trick is matching it to your own personal circumstances in as practical a manner as possible.

I have a copy on the shelf but it's probably not been opened in 20 years. Much of it was outdated then tbh.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
I hope you're prolapsed ewe is doing better than mine, I've just had to shoot it :mad:
That’s a barsteward!
Ours is up and about ( inside) but I walked in to another this morning, she’s straining like mad , when I got to her it looks and smells like she’s trying to pass a dead lamb 🤢
I’ve jabbed her with metacam and antibiotics and she’s doing ok but stinks , she was supposed to be having twins but not for another four weeks!
Bloody sheep
 
That’s a barsteward!
Ours is up and about ( inside) but I walked in to another this morning, she’s straining like mad , when I got to her it looks and smells like she’s trying to pass a dead lamb 🤢
I’ve jabbed her with metacam and antibiotics and she’s doing ok but stinks , she was supposed to be having twins but not for another four weeks!
Bloody sheep
Ours was bang on time, 2 weeks before due to start :rolleyes: Always happens though
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
A few more Sheepy musings …
Costs and how to cut them! We sat down the other night and did an as honest as we could list of outgoing expenses, it was frightening, so much so that the outgoing was literally just covered by lamb sales / cull sales and what bps we got .
If I am honest it made me both despondent and started me thinking about whether to just give up
However it’s not what either of us want so we need to nail down the outgoing and improve the incoming.. easier said than done that’s for sure . Our ground is in mid tear @£151 hectare ( I think) our land agent at out recent meeting had pages of sfi options but was awaiting the rates for upland land so we were advised to stay with mid tear for now. Fixed costs remain.. fixed , but feed etc vary year on year
Going back to my op and my doodling the white board, the upper right field is only 25 meters from the field gate in to our “ home ground” of 40 acres and so could easily be brought in to a rotational grazing system with a 25 meter move across the moor , in effect rotating 100 acres and buying fodder , then we are down to A/ house sheep for lambing

B/ lamb all outside, ditch most mechanical equipment etc
Decision’s , decision’s
 
A few more Sheepy musings …
Costs and how to cut them! We sat down the other night and did an as honest as we could list of outgoing expenses, it was frightening, so much so that the outgoing was literally just covered by lamb sales / cull sales and what bps we got .
If I am honest it made me both despondent and started me thinking about whether to just give up
However it’s not what either of us want so we need to nail down the outgoing and improve the incoming.. easier said than done that’s for sure . Our ground is in mid tear @£151 hectare ( I think) our land agent at out recent meeting had pages of sfi options but was awaiting the rates for upland land so we were advised to stay with mid tear for now. Fixed costs remain.. fixed , but feed etc vary year on year
Going back to my op and my doodling the white board, the upper right field is only 25 meters from the field gate in to our “ home ground” of 40 acres and so could easily be brought in to a rotational grazing system with a 25 meter move across the moor , in effect rotating 100 acres and buying fodder , then we are down to A/ house sheep for lambing

B/ lamb all outside, ditch most mechanical equipment etc
Decision’s , decision’s
The problem with livestock farming is the 2 things which impact most on performance are out of our control. i.e. weather and sale prices. Feed is the third one but you can affect that by stocking levels, selling store etc.

Here last year was break even due to drought, high feed costs and a drop in lamb prices. The year before was one of the best due to much lower feed costs, better lamb prices and carrying more cattle

This year looks to be a lot better due to plenty of grass even though it was wet, a big lift in cattle prices and lambs going up as well. I don’t think I’ve done anything different, just different conditions .

One thing I have noticed over the years and which is far more under control is to try and produce better quality stock. An extra £10 to £15 a lamb or £200 a calf can make a big difference
 

Estate fencing.

Member
Livestock Farmer
A few more Sheepy musings …
Costs and how to cut them! We sat down the other night and did an as honest as we could list of outgoing expenses, it was frightening, so much so that the outgoing was literally just covered by lamb sales / cull sales and what bps we got .
If I am honest it made me both despondent and started me thinking about whether to just give up
However it’s not what either of us want so we need to nail down the outgoing and improve the incoming.. easier said than done that’s for sure . Our ground is in mid tear @£151 hectare ( I think) our land agent at out recent meeting had pages of sfi options but was awaiting the rates for upland land so we were advised to stay with mid tear for now. Fixed costs remain.. fixed , but feed etc vary year on year
Going back to my op and my doodling the white board, the upper right field is only 25 meters from the field gate in to our “ home ground” of 40 acres and so could easily be brought in to a rotational grazing system with a 25 meter move across the moor , in effect rotating 100 acres and buying fodder , then we are down to A/ house sheep for lambing

B/ lamb all outside, ditch most mechanical equipment etc
Decision’s , decision’s
What sort of money do you get for your lambs, you said before that you sell to one person (if I remember correct) are they reaching there true market value.
 

JockCroft

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
JanDeGrootLand
Obviously when you mow you remove the crop and the worm burden, I wonder if topping has much of an effect? Flail topper for example.
Flail topper checks the gras and in my opinion is worse for seeding weeds like docks andthistles. Rotary topper may be a bit better. I, somewhere have a copy of a trial by North College of Ag. and they tried every way to not say that a finger bar mower topped grass was a week or so ahead on regrowth, but the yield figures showed it.

IMO finger bar only suitable for a patient operator on level younger grass.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
What sort of money do you get for your lambs, you said before that you sell to one person (if I remember correct) are they reaching there true market value.
Average £65 across them all ie bigs and smaller ones , this last year we were told by a few folk that they were the best lambs we had produced ( all go stores not fat)
Bigger ones went at £80 which I was ok with, lad was telling me he sent some fat for 120 recently, then said they had put £30 of provin in them 😖
 

Macsky

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Highland
Flail topper checks the gras and in my opinion is worse for seeding weeds like docks andthistles. Rotary topper may be a bit better. I, somewhere have a copy of a trial by North College of Ag. and they tried every way to not say that a finger bar mower topped grass was a week or so ahead on regrowth, but the yield figures showed it.

IMO finger bar only suitable for a patient operator on level younger grass.
Stands to reason, finger bar will cut in a scissor action, like an animal bite, rather than thrash it like any swinging blade.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you collected data on kg of sold lamb from each ewe would it let you cull the less productive ewes?

How are you selecting the rams you use?
Rams are a mix of Cheviot from a lad we have bought from for a few years, mainly bought because they give us a lamb ! And at the end of the season have held condition rather than melting away
all lambs ( except our replacements) go as stores , we have a regular buyer and generally go on frame and condition rather than weight
 

Estate fencing.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Average £65 across them all ie bigs and smaller ones , this last year we were told by a few folk that they were the best lambs we had produced ( all go stores not fat)
Bigger ones went at £80 which I was ok with, lad was telling me he sent some fat for 120 recently, then said they had put £30 of provin in them 😖
Doesn’t seem very high, but obviously haven’t seen the sheep.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
Doesn’t seem very high, but obviously haven’t seen the sheep.
Texels they ain’t , I was looking at our hoggs yesterday and thought , they look small!
Chev x Welsh hill ewe , thing is up here , folk have tried llynne, etc and they did no good , one neighbour has tex cross and they do very well, but he has big acres so less sheep / acre
Realistically it’s herdwick and swaley ground , and I’ve held back a lot more gimmers than I should as we were trying to get a flock of chev x Welsh
 

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