How do you …. Get out of farming?

som farmer · Mar 2, 2024

Rich_ard said:
I'd think there will as many new entrants give up as have success. Unless it's a neighbour son who can use free machines and trailers and handling pens then it's a difficult sell. Someone will be keen to buy it no doubt, what they do with it, who knows!

know fot 2 different young tenants, going into farms now, both looking for herds of milkers.

just wonder how they manage to find the money, to buy a herd, just puts them into serious debt, just as they start.

damn sure l wouldn't want a weight like that, but then, 30 yrs ago, l did just that.

hindsight is wonderful.

Rich_ard · Mar 2, 2024

som farmer said:
know fot 2 different young tenants, going into farms now, both looking for herds of milkers.

just wonder how they manage to find the money, to buy a herd, just puts them into serious debt, just as they start.

damn sure l wouldn't want a weight like that, but then, 30 yrs ago, l did just that.

hindsight is wonderful.

Anything is possible I suppose but I don't see many what I call a true new entrant getting going. A farmers son or daughter (quite common too) starts, but I doubt its all on there own. Get splashed about in the paper how they doing it differently and all that. There are the guys on socal media who have done it. Coupled with that income it might help, I bet that's not an easy ride either.

Pan mixer · Mar 2, 2024

We had one of those resiliance things that HMG are paying for to help us over the end of SFP.

Although some of the advice was pretty bland - in fact several bits were.

The initial advice was to sell up. Me 63, Wife 62, 3 kids uninterested, that was discounted quickly, I want to potter on as long as I am able, the boss was relatively happy to go along with that.

The best bit about the process was to actually sit down and have a big think about 'what next', talk it through with a neutral person in front of us and generally see that we had thought through the next stage (tba) and were both happy with it.

Estate fencing. · Mar 3, 2024

People keep saying give a “new entrant” a chance to share farm it but if the op can’t make money at it on his own at a time of life when his cost of living will be less how will a young person make money for the both of them. If you have someone in there 20’s 30’s who has to think about raising a family and buying a house how will they have any money to invest in the stock and the next part of there business? I speak from experience that I just doesn’t work, the young person does all the hard graft and gets pee'd off with the older land owner seemingly get more money to doing nothing but sticking his noise into the business, where as the landowner thinks they are being done because they have millions invested and the young person doesn’t put anything into the infrastructure that is getting worn.

Aspiring Peasants · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
Mulling things over … now I love farming ( mostly) and as some of you know, I’ve said it’s all I ever wanted to do .
But times are changing and with the weather on top of poor ground plus my age and aches and pains, I’ve been wondering if it’s time to say enough
Part of me feels guilty as if I am giving in and part of me daydreams about riding my old bike on a summer’s evening or walking in the hills.

The thing is how do we go about it , the farm is spread over 4 main parcels and we have the livestock.
I actually ( think) I want to farm but am to old to finance moving to another place.
to downsize Would still have the ties of livestock so may as well grow bigger !
I’ve thought about selling the bulk of the sheep at the backend when we sell the lambs and keeping some hoggs and gimmers over winter , my theory being in spring the place will look fresher ( not eaten up) and if we chose to carry on we will have a nucleus of home bred sheep
Thoughts much appreciated

Having just read through the thread, this is what struck me. You need to decide whether you want to farm, or whether you want to live in the Lakes. Those 2 things are mentioned fairly equally. It would seem that doing both is unfortunately not possible.

If you decide to stay have you fully looked into what could be available under SFI etc? To me it seems to have come at just the right time to drift into semi-retirement. I don’t have moorland, but it’s all LFA and some SDA next to the fell. If I go with the options available it will provide a regular quarterly income and can reduce stock or at least change to easier managed. I’m older than you and I’m looking forward to it!

Wood field · Mar 3, 2024

Aspiring Peasants said:
Having just read through the thread, this is what struck me. You need to decide whether you want to farm, or whether you want to live in the Lakes. Those 2 things are mentioned fairly equally. It would seem that doing both is unfortunately not possible.

If you decide to stay have you fully looked into what could be available under SFI etc? To me it seems to have come at just the right time to drift into semi-retirement. I don’t have moorland, but it’s all LFA and some SDA next to the fell. If I go with the options available it will provide a regular quarterly income and can reduce stock or at least change to easier managed. I’m older than you and I’m looking forward to it!

We had a meeting with our land agent and at the moment (all moor and sda) we are better off in mid tier, she had pages of sfi options relating to grassland but as yet no figures or firm dates when it comes in .
That said we are looking at the options

I’ve always wanted to go back home , mrs says it’s like the Welsh term “ hiraeth”
However there’s no way we could afford to farm there
My son and his mrs say they want to take the place on “ one day “ so .. For now we will keep trying to improve the place and somehow try different tups or whatever to get more value from the lambs
One thing I do want is , when the time comes, to have a few years taking it easy with some quality of life

principal skinner · Mar 3, 2024

Bongodog said:
Outta Morston - well at least it wouldn't be too demanding on your time with only about 3 hours each tide deep enough to float a rubber duck

Time for a pint or two of Wherry in the Anchor and supper at Morston Hall then

steveR · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
My son and his mrs say they want to take the place on “ one day “ so .. For now we will keep trying to improve the place and somehow try different tups or whatever to get more value from the lambs
One thing I do want is , when the time comes, to have a few years taking it easy with some quality of life

The "one day" is so flexible, as to be of no use in YOUR future plans. My kids like the ability to take advantage of the farm from a purely leisure POV, and that's fair enough, they all have their own lives and careers, none of which really involve farming for a living.

No.1 daughter has been corrupted somewhat after a lambing course yesterday at the local Vets mind..... Came back positively buzzing at how much there was to know about sheep breeding. Great attitude but 2-3 weeks a year here helping with FUF is probably enough!!

If she decided she wanted a 300acre lowland sheep farm, that would be a challenge to ponder!!!!

So, slightly different land this end, but still the same quandary and decision making process to be gone through! Don't leave it too late Dave

Wood field · Mar 3, 2024

steveR said:
The "one day" is so flexible, as to be of no use in YOUR future plans. My kids like the ability to take advantage of the farm from a purely leisure POV, and that's fair enough, they all have their own lives and careers, none of which really involve farming for a living.

No.1 daughter has been corrupted somewhat after a lambing course yesterday at the local Vets mind..... Came back positively buzzing at how much there was to know about sheep breeding. Great attitude but 2-3 weeks a year here helping with FUF is probably enough!! If she decided she wanted a 300acre lowland sheep farm, that would be a challenge to ponder!!!!

So, slightly different land this end, but still the same quandary and decision making process to be gone through! Don't leave it too late Dave

My daughter has no interest, she has her own life and career which is good
My son has his career and has been saving like mad to get a deposit for a house
He will be here for a week in April, lambing sheep
He is very good with stock but he and his mrs have their own life.
My thoughts are , to ask them if they want it “when the time comes”
However that opens a new can of worms, do they rent the place until we snuff it ? Do we sell some outlying land ?
as we still need to buy somewhere for us to live

steveR · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
My daughter has no interest, she has her own life and career which is good
My son has his career and has been saving like mad to get a deposit for a house
He will be here for a week in April, lambing sheep
He is very good with stock but he and his mrs have their own life.
My thoughts are , to ask them if they want it “when the time comes”
However that opens a new can of worms, do they rent the place until we snuff it ? Do we sell some outlying land ?
as we still need to buy somewhere for us to live

..............

Hilly · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
In farming terms, we are just starting (14 years) I’ve three choices
1/ sell up
2/ carry on as we are
Or 3/ another swap and change with stock to get more value

35 years in and feel like a beginner.

Hilly · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
My daughter has no interest, she has her own life and career which is good
My son has his career and has been saving like mad to get a deposit for a house
He will be here for a week in April, lambing sheep
He is very good with stock but he and his mrs have their own life.
My thoughts are , to ask them if they want it “when the time comes”
However that opens a new can of worms, do they rent the place until we snuff it ? Do we sell some outlying land ?
as we still need to buy somewhere for us to live

Succession is a nightmare ….

Wood field · Mar 3, 2024

Hilly said:
35 years in and feel like a beginner.

From your posts and pictures you do a great job .saying that especially in farming, every day is a school day

Wood field · Mar 3, 2024

Hilly said:
Succession is a nightmare ….

Fortunately my two were brought up off farm , I was engineering when they were dragged kicking and screaming in to the world. They see it a bit like a nice place to live and visit , but quickly run back to civilisation.
All our money ( bar a little bit) is in the farm , fortunately we owe very little, but as such we would have to sell to buy a house for ourselves

Rich_ard · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
Fortunately my two were brought up off farm , I was engineering when they were dragged kicking and screaming in to the world. They see it a bit like a nice place to live and visit , but quickly run back to civilisation.
All our money ( bar a little bit) is in the farm , fortunately we owe very little, but as such we would have to sell to buy a house for ourselves

Just think about yourselves. If they want it they can buy it from you if you want to sell. Mostly the reason they come will be to see you and your wife. If you move they might rather come to the new place

Hilly · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
From your posts and pictures you do a great job .saying that especially in farming, every day is a school day

I always feel like a beginner among generational farmers …. Maybe a confidence thing who knows .

Derrick Hughes · Mar 3, 2024

Blue. said:
Anyone giving £200 for the summer is just going to rob the land.

Far from it , they want it more to get rid of their muck than anything , a classic way of robbing your land is growing horse haylage year on year

Hilly · Mar 3, 2024

Estate fencing. said:
People keep saying give a “new entrant” a chance to share farm it but if the op can’t make money at it on his own at a time of life when his cost of living will be less how will a young person make money for the both of them. If you have someone in there 20’s 30’s who has to think about raising a family and buying a house how will they have any money to invest in the stock and the next part of there business? I speak from experience that I just doesn’t work, the young person does all the hard graft and gets pee'd off with the older land owner seemingly get more money to doing nothing but sticking his noise into the business, where as the landowner thinks they are being done because they have millions invested and the young person doesn’t put anything into the infrastructure that is getting worn.

No doubt it works for odd ones but for the vast majority this is 100% correct . Ive said for years all this new entrant crap is wrong for start why give young ones grants and not older farmers ? Stupid ageist . And why encourage yooth into a retracting industry its irresponsible …

merino · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
My daughter has no interest, she has her own life and career which is good
My son has his career and has been saving like mad to get a deposit for a house
He will be here for a week in April, lambing sheep
He is very good with stock but he and his mrs have their own life.
My thoughts are , to ask them if they want it “when the time comes”
However that opens a new can of worms, do they rent the place until we snuff it ? Do we sell some outlying land ?
as we still need to buy somewhere for us to live

From my own experience, I feel I must say that the sale of a farm doesn't necessarily have to limit your childrens opportunities or career prospects, in or out of agriculture.

For example my brother got his house deposit out of the farm sale.

Beyond that, I've screenshoted the inflation adjusted land price in England.

My point being that you are not guaranteed to be maximising your economic opportunities for yourself or your kids by keeping hold of land.

neilo · Mar 3, 2024

Wood field said:
One thing I do want is , when the time comes, to have a few years taking it easy with some quality of life

Right there is your answer. If you keep putting it off then it will suddenly be too late to ‘take it easy with some quality of life’.
I don’t know the details of your finances, but you say you don’t owe much. If you can sell up, clearing any debts, and buy a nice little place in the Lakes with no rent or mortgage, then you don’t need a lot to live on.

You can’t put your plans on hold because one of your children might want to take it on ‘one day’. They can always sell your place in the Lakes and buy somewhere then, after you’ve enjoyed it.
If it were my parents, I wouldn’t want them putting anything on hold just because I might want to enjoy the fruits of their labour one day. I would want them to enjoy themselves, whether that was farming or tinkering with old bikes in the garage of their cottage in the Lakes.

I might be wrong but going by this thread, and a similar one you started last lambing time, is your heart still in it? Making a living at it isn’t going to get easier due to govt policy and age. Maybe it’s time to cash in on your capital growth since buying, before it’s forced on you.
Remember, life isn’t a rehearsal, you only get the one crack at it.

How do you …. Get out of farming?

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