Backwards calves…the bull?

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

Having calved the first 20 cows to a new bull 3 have been the wrong way round. I cannot remember the last time we had one the wrong way round let alone 3.
2 have had to be out via ceaser as they were too large to jack out and I’ve just calved another the wrong way round tonight but the calf was dead then the calf bed followed it…just got that back in.
Can this be the bulls fault ? Im going to hang him up if it is

Hesstondriver · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
Having calved the first 20 cows to a new bull 3 have been the wrong way round. I cannot remember the last time we had one the wrong way round let alone 3.
2 have had to be out via ceaser as they were too large to jack out and I’ve just calved another the wrong way round tonight but the calf was dead then the calf bed followed it…just got that back in.
Can this be the bulls fault ? Im going to hang him up if it is

I’d struggle to see what genetic trait from the bull wound cause mal presenting.

unless they were consistently over sized , causing turning issues , but I think that’s slim chance

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

Hesstondriver said:
I’d struggle to see what genetic trait from the bull wound cause mal presenting.

unless they were consistently over sized , causing turning issues , but I think that’s slim chance

Someone mentioned it is the calves to big to turn….most of the calves have been larger than I’d of liked

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
Having calved the first 20 cows to a new bull 3 have been the wrong way round. I cannot remember the last time we had one the wrong way round let alone 3.
2 have had to be out via ceaser as they were too large to jack out and I’ve just calved another the wrong way round tonight but the calf was dead then the calf bed followed it…just got that back in.
Can this be the bulls fault ? Im going to hang him up if it is

I don’t think it’s the bull although it could be. I always associate calves coming backwards with unsettled cattle or moving them before calving.
How big are they? If they are generally too big it’s less likely they will present themselves in a good manor

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

livestock 1 said:
I don’t think it’s the bull although it could be. I always associate calves coming backwards with unsettled cattle or moving them before calving.
How big are they? If they are generally too big it’s less likely they will present themselves in a good manor

They haven’t been moved since October. So they have been settled all winter. The calves are bigger than off the last bulls. He’s had to bull more of the cows as well as another new bull hurt its leg and only bulled a few

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
They haven’t been moved since October. So they have been settled all winter. The calves are bigger than off the last bulls. He’s had to bull more of the cows as well as another new bull hurt its leg and only bulled a few

Possibly the most likely scenario is the calves are too big and not presenting well then

Werzle · Apr 23, 2024

livestock 1 said:
I don’t think it’s the bull although it could be. I always associate calves coming backwards with unsettled cattle or moving them before calving.
How big are they? If they are generally too big it’s less likely they will present themselves in a good manor

Jostling to feed etc i agree

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Have you not had a few with a leg back ? Or struggled to get the head to come forward when you pulled them?

bert · Apr 23, 2024

We had 5 in the first 30 a few years ago, actually managed to save all 5 calves. I think it was the bull throwing big calves which couldn’t turn round

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

livestock 1 said:
Have you not had a few with a leg back ? Or struggled to get the head to come forward when you pulled them?

What do you mean? They were completely the wrong way round, couldn’t get the head

Skintagain · Apr 23, 2024

Have your cows just wintered a bit too well? Is there others in same group from different bull not having issues?

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

bert said:
We had 5 in the first 30 a few years ago, actually managed to save all 5 calves. I think it was the bull throwing big calves which couldn’t turn round

This is my suspicion…did you kill the bull?

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

Skintagain said:
Have your cows just wintered a bit too well? Is there others in same group from different bull not having issues?

They are just in the right fettle, these will all be by the same bull, out of 20 we will of had 3 backwards and maybe just had to Jack 5 out, the rest calved themselves

bert · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
This is my suspicion…did you kill the bull?

Yeah, he was throwing numb none sucking calves too

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
What do you mean? They were completely the wrong way round, couldn’t get the head

No I mean if the calves were too big to present themselves properly or forward even then it’s also likely there would be ones coming forward that had a leg back or a head reluctant to come out as you pulled

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

livestock 1 said:
No I mean if the calves were too big to present themselves properly or forward even then it’s also likely there would be ones coming forward that had a leg back or a head reluctant to come out as you pulled

Ah right, no the ones coming normally were presented as normal …just needed a jack

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
Ah right, no the ones coming normally were presented as normal …just needed a jack

Sometimes these things happen doesn't sound like you should chop the bull yet then

Wooly · Apr 23, 2024

Northeastfarmer said:
They are just in the right fettle, these will all be by the same bull, out of 20 we will of had 3 backwards and maybe just had to Jack 5 out, the rest calved themselves

So 8 out of 20 needed assistance !!

40%

Not sure I would want that hassle

Northeastfarmer · Apr 23, 2024

Wooly said:
So 8 out of 20 needed assistance !!
40%

Not sure I would want that hassle

Neither do I….hence he’ll be going

livestock 1 · Apr 23, 2024

Father used to run the incalf cows lean he was always in fear of big calves. I used to moan about them being lean but I have more troubles calving with cows on adlib silage than we did when he was in charge

Backwards calves…the bull?

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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