CIPC contamination in grain stores

[llamedos]

Perhaps I was being a bit flippant. Why is this appearing now? Has CIPC been found in grain?



Correct. Bitumen based sealants are a particular no-no especially in oilseed rape.

It seems this has been a ruling since 2012, as I said above I cant find anything more recent than that, here is one of the original articles I came across. Perhaps testing has been ramped up, bringing it to the fore again.

http://www.potato.org.uk/news/avoid-risks-cipc-cross-contamination

 

[Bob lincs]

@Bob lincs - relax! Do the risk assessment, having cleaned out the store. Assessment says no CIPC contamination. File away in the filing cabinet. Job done. YOU HAVE ASSESSED THE RISK AND TAKEN ALL REASONABLE STEPS TO MINIMISE THE RISK.

If you do actually test the store for CIPC & it comes back as being contaminated AND you do nothing about it THEN you are stuffed. How long ago was it last used for spuds? Who actually told you it was contaminated? What qualifications do they have to say so? Have they actually tested it or are they making a sweeping statement?

The contaminatio

@Bob lincs - relax! Do the risk assessment, having cleaned out the store. Assessment says no CIPC contamination. File away in the filing cabinet. Job done. YOU HAVE ASSESSED THE RISK AND TAKEN ALL REASONABLE STEPS TO MINIMISE THE RISK.

If you do actually test the store for CIPC & it comes back as being contaminated AND you do nothing about it THEN you are stuffed. How long ago was it last used for spuds? Who actually told you it was contaminated? What qualifications do they have to say so? Have they actually tested it or are they making a sweeping statement?

if you have used cipc in the store you DO have to get the store tested to complete your risk assessment , you will have very high chance of detecting cipc as it lasts for years . The level of contamination is set at zero ie if you find 0.0000001 parts per billion you can't use the store .

 

[Brisel]

Ah. I see. Not good then. I did the risk assessment here but have never grown potatoes so no problem. My old farm will be in toruble as it has a 700t shed that used to be used for spud storage & was converted to grain with drive on floors.

 

[7610 super q]

It does not matter how well you seal your store walls , floor ,roof etc etc if you say yes to the question about the store previously having been treated with cipc you then have to have the fabric of the store tested it almost defiantly will come back positive so you cannot use that building
This is a huge problem why is it not being talked about more ?? Or are people just ignoring it and hope it goes away .

I'm ignoring Red Tractor altogether, and hoping it goes away...................

 

[SilliamWhale]

I'm ignoring Red Tractor altogether, and hoping it goes away...................

They're saving lives and us from ourselves with valuable paper shuffling.

 

[Bob lincs]

I think there would be more sence in testing the grain before its sold rather than the building its stored in .

 

[SilliamWhale]

If it was genuinely important it would be regulated for

 

[llamedos]

I think there would be more sence in testing the grain before its sold rather than the building its stored in .

I dont really know much about it other than what I have put here, but on the subject of testing the grain would test results be dependent on where in the pile the grain was taken from, take it from the middle and it would pass, against the sides of the store - fail?
Would any chemical residues which have permeated the store be released when temperature rises?

Not questioning what anyone does, just thinking of reasons behind such strict assurance.

 

[Exfarmer]

There is certainly a small danger of contamination as has been shown by poor germination in seed corn stored in such stores after recent gassing.
However the chemical is volatile so after a very short time the amount of chemical in the store will be minute, especially if the store is left open between crops.
Due to its volatility, which will ensure that it penetrates deep into the concrete, it will never be able to say that it is totally clear, but the residue will be in terms of Nanograms.
The contamination level of other crops, will normally be so low as to be undetectable. It does beg the question that if there is any perceived problem, even storing another crop of potatoes gives issues of treatment and crop movement! Remember too that a store may be treated several times before sale

 

[Bob lincs]

There is certainly a small danger of contamination as has been shown by poor germination in seed corn stored in such stores after recent gassing.
However the chemical is volatile so after a very short time the amount of chemical in the store will be minute, especially if the store is left open between crops.
Due to its volatility, which will ensure that it penetrates deep into the concrete, it will never be able to say that it is totally clear, but the residue will be in terms of Nanograms.
The contamination level of other crops, will normally be so low as to be undetectable. It does beg the question that if there is any perceived problem, even storing another crop of potatoes gives issues of treatment and crop movement! Remember too that a store may be treated several times before sale

I think there's more chance of someone being caught out on their paperwork then RT wanting to trace where the crop has gone .

 

[An Gof]

I think there's more chance of someone being caught out on their paperwork then RT wanting to trace where the crop has gone .

NO, there have been cases where people have been caught out from residue testing at mills. This is VERY serious financially for you if you get caught.

I agree that it is ludicrous when the product is used on potatoes in the way it is but food safety rules trump all. The costs of getting caught are high and the costs of contaminated stores are high; a real case of a rock and a hard place.

 

[Bob lincs]

NO, there have been cases where people have been caught out from residue testing at mills. This is VERY serious financially for you if you get caught.

I agree that it is ludicrous when the product is used on potatoes in the way it is but food safety rules trump all. The costs of getting caught are high and the costs of contaminated stores are high; a real case of a rock and a hard place.

I think the real problem is for the co ops and central stores , they know a large percentage of their members/ growers have no choice but to use the buildings that they know are contaminated .

 

[Rust]

Has anyone got a template for this ??

 

[Sonoftheheir]

I just made up a sign in word and printed it out and laminated it.

Something along the lines of -

"CIPC used in this store, only suitable for the storage of potatoes"

 

[Y Fan Wen]

We just need to export all food production and concentrate on re-wilding!!!

 

[Honest john]

I know of one Business that has replaced his grain storage.
The old shed has drying floors & stirrers.

Retirement is getting more interesting by the day.

All this & a Tory Government that promised to rid Business of unnecessary red tape.

 

[Honest john]

We have at least 3 current stores used for "temporary storage" of grain which have also had CIPC used recently. During our last Assured Produce check we were told to put up CIPC signage.
I couldn't believe it when told of new grain storage rules. I suggested plastic sheeting or even fresh concrete if no longer using for spuds. Was told CIPC can still seep out!!
Are we really condemning 1000's of perfectly good stores just because no work has been done on MRL's??
Think I'll need to be very careful which samples of concrete/insulation I send off to be tested!!
It's fine to store grain in Cattle yards after a quick wash down. MADNESS!!

I think I am getting to old to play in this game. Is hard to think up a word to describe this Madness.

So just to get this right.

We can Gas the spuds with CIPC 3 times. Not the building the actual crop that can be eaten after a quick wash.
But Grain stored in a shed not gassed for say 20 yrs is a no no.

There's going to be a huge increase in Non Assured Grain to export to Africa.