my mob stocking experiment

[Coximus]

my mob size is 100, but will go upto 125 tomorrow morning and theyre to be moved on sat coming.
Theyres content, and the top is going now, theyre also eating the thistles so all good.
Given the amount of trampling - im happy, its still doing everything its supposed to do.

 

[Keepers]

my mob size is 100, but will go upto 125 tomorrow morning and theyre to be moved on sat coming.
Theyres content, and the top is going now, theyre also eating the thistles so all good.
Given the amount of trampling - im happy, its still doing everything its supposed to do.

If they are going back and picking on the seed heads and thistle tops, they have eaten all of the good stuff..... surely this really isn't mob grazing at all? and they have already damaged the re growth by being on it long enough that they are now choosing to eat crap

 

[Coximus]

Possibly - They are now eating the weedy area they have, until now avoided, so its not really a re-visit on the whole, and no re-growth would be expected this quick on PP with low indexes like this.
They're not eating thistle tops - they're eating the whole thing, which is a trait that comes mostly from the Hebridean x texel descended ewes.
Their is still good un trammeled cover on 1/4 of it, just the worst part with weeds. If they were re-visiting the best grassy area, I would open up the next cell.

That said its amazing how fast they do seem to suddenly "flip" and the behaviour changes.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Possibly - They are now eating the weedy area they have, until now avoided, so its not really a re-visit on the whole, and no re-growth would be expected this quick on PP with low indexes like this.
They're not eating thistle tops - they're eating the whole thing, which is a trait that comes mostly from the Hebridean x texel descended ewes.
Their is still good un trammeled cover on 1/4 of it, just the worst part with weeds. If they were re-visiting the best grassy area, I would open up the next cell.

That said its amazing how fast they do seem to suddenly "flip" and the behaviour changes.

If stock are in a cell longer than 3 days they eat regrowth and slow recovery.

 

[Jim75]

I was wanting to start something similar, would 600ewes in 8ha blocks be feasible? Going to visit a near farm doing similar But on a bigger scale. I could have 7-8 8ha blocks in a circle at present. No previous experience so all suggestions gratefully accepted.

 

[unlacedgecko]

I was wanting to start something similar, would 600ewes in 8ha blocks be feasible? Going to visit a near farm doing similar But on a bigger scale. I could have 7-8 8ha blocks in a circle at present. No previous experience so all suggestions gratefully accepted.

Land area per head of stock is unimportant. The calculation is available kg of dry matter per kg of stock liveweight.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Possibly - They are now eating the weedy area they have, until now avoided, so its not really a re-visit on the whole, and no re-growth would be expected this quick on PP with low indexes like this.
They're not eating thistle tops - they're eating the whole thing, which is a trait that comes mostly from the Hebridean x texel descended ewes.
Their is still good un trammeled cover on 1/4 of it, just the worst part with weeds. If they were re-visiting the best grassy area, I would open up the next cell.

That said its amazing how fast they do seem to suddenly "flip" and the behaviour changes.

You'd be surprised at regrowth even on poor pp if they were in and out within a few days. Even if it's just that first shoot - it catches the sunlight to get things going after root mass has died back. To keep grazing off that first shoot really depletes the plant.

 

[Coximus]

You'd be surprised at regrowth even on poor pp if they were in and out within a few days. Even if it's just that first shoot - it catches the sunlight to get things going after root mass has died back. To keep grazing off that first shoot really depletes the plant.

What about the still green, but laying flat due to trampling, grass, surely that acts as a sail for sunlight that isnt grazed so helping the grass plant still? I was working on the basis (possibly wrong) that as long as that was providing enough im not damaing the plants.

 

[CopperBeech]

Possibly - They are now eating the weedy area they have, until now avoided, so its not really a re-visit on the whole, and no re-growth would be expected this quick on PP with low indexes like this.
They're not eating thistle tops - they're eating the whole thing, which is a trait that comes mostly from the Hebridean x texel descended ewes.
Their is still good un trammeled cover on 1/4 of it, just the worst part with weeds. If they were re-visiting the best grassy area, I would open up the next cell.

That said its amazing how fast they do seem to suddenly "flip" and the behaviour changes.

The idea with mob stocking, is they can't really wander about that much picking what they eat. They just eat and trample everything all at once, to the same density, and then move on to the next cell.

Currently we are running at about 70 ewes and their lambs per acre, and on a 3-4 day move they are leaving a lot.

It varies depending on the situation, as in what you are trying to achieve. Best growth on lambs and flock health, is probably 1 day moves, tight ish stocking, but not pushing them hard, and combining with cattle to keep grass at optimal length and quality.

For improving soil fertility, slightly longer moves, tighter stocking and more trampling is better.

For smashing down a jungle, either longer again, tight as you can get away with, and expect eventually a lesser performance, or very fast moves, tight stocking, and revisit.

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

What about the still green, but laying flat due to trampling, grass, surely that acts as a sail for sunlight that isnt grazed so helping the grass plant still? I was working on the basis (possibly wrong) that as long as that was providing enough im not damaing the plants.

We have our ewes put out on similar pasture, but I think they are avoiding some areas because they are unpalatable. Some areas grazed tight including docks which is gratifying to see, but an old sheep farmer who I respect enormously told me that the best grass for sheep was that which grew yesterday. So I think that I have been using them as a blunt instrument to chisel off the grass, which is OK in some ways because they are weaned(and dont need the best right now) and what I am aiming to do is get the place straight for flushing. We will top off where they have been, but that still leaves the unpalatable grasses longer with more leaf area than the grasses we wish to encourage which have been razored off a couple of times.

 

[Coximus]

so effectively I'm running a half way house between mob stocking and rotational grazing.

I've marked out my.next cell at 0.75ha and pushed th3m in today. Will be interesting to see any difference as this area is a weed infested post horse appocalypse.

the sheep are all dry ewes and lambs not due to be tupped till nov and are already at 3/4 final weight so hence me using them to experiment with. I wouldn't risk playing with any sooking lambs.

I'll upload pics shortly when I've rolled the wires back. pleased tonfind alot of plantain in this pasture shooting back after being eaten.

 

[Coximus]

in they go to a .75/ha cell of weeds and horse sick grass.

 

[cows250]

True mob stocking is far higher density than that....I haven't got there either, but 100,000 to 1 million pounds per acre, has been done (kg per ha is close enough to 1:1 at this point.) So, 1250 to 12,000 (80kg) sheep per hectare, and moving multiple times a day. I am using 57 goat wethers and 5 steers of varying ages, weighing ~6,300 pounds total and giving them .2 acres of new grass a day, so 31,500 lbs/acre stocking density. In a week I will be grazing 72,000 pounds of dairy cattle on .2 acre breaks overnight as a small part of their diet... 360,000 pounds/acre. Curious to see how the pasture responds to that.

How much fence are you willing to build? You have (at a guess) ~6,000 kg liveweight that need to eat 150 kg DM per day. If they eat about a third of what's there, that would be about 0.15 hectare of new grass per day

 

[scholland]

The idea with mob stocking, is they can't really wander about that much picking what they eat. They just eat and trample everything all at once, to the same density, and then move on to the next cell.

Currently we are running at about 70 ewes and their lambs per acre, and on a 3-4 day move they are leaving a lot.

It varies depending on the situation, as in what you are trying to achieve. Best growth on lambs and flock health, is probably 1 day moves, tight ish stocking, but not pushing them hard, and combining with cattle to keep grass at optimal length and quality.

For improving soil fertility, slightly longer moves, tighter stocking and more trampling is better.

For smashing down a jungle, either longer again, tight as you can get away with, and expect eventually a lesser performance, or very fast moves, tight stocking, and revisit.

Think we will try a leader follower system next year with the leader being ewes and twins, follower either single ewes or cows should let us eat paddocks harder which should improve pasture but also not affect twin performance.

 

[The Ruminant]

Several people have said it already so I'll just reiterate it: if you leave animals on the same piece of ground for longer than 3-4 days, the grass will start to regrow and they will choose the succulent regrowth rather than the older grasses.

Why is it important to avoid this? Well grasses store energy in their roots. When they're grazed off they use some of this energy to push up a new shoot. It takes a while before this shoot is large enough and capturing enough sunlight to be an energy generator - before it reaches this stage it's an energy consumer. If you keep grazing a grass plant's new shoots you deplete its energy reserves. There comes a point where all the energy reserves are used up. The plant can no longer regrow and it dies. It is replaced by another plant, typically an opportunistic weed (think ragwort, docks, thistles). This is why overgrazed horse paddocks, for example, are often a weed-infested mess!

You said you gave them 2ha last time and it lasted them, from memory, c.20 days?? If this is correct then that's telling me they need 0.1ha per day. Therefore if I was you I'd fence off an acre - 0.4ha - and leave them there for four days, then repeat. If you feel they have eaten too much, give them 0.5ha, or eaten too little then give them 0.35ha. Just tweak it each time, allowing for grass growth etc

You will get much more contented sheep. They won't be hunting round on day 15 looking for the "tasty morsel" they've all missed over the past 14 days. Every few days they'll have fresh grazing to go at.

You'll have better grass growth. Your 2ha will only be exposed to grazing for 4 days - in blocks of 0.4ha - instead of 20 days, during each grazing round.

Your grass will regrow more quickly, only having to push up one new shoot and becoming an energy generator much more quickly as a result.

Good luck

 

[Jim75]

Land area per head of stock is unimportant. The calculation is available kg of dry matter per kg of stock liveweight.

Maybe I was a bit vague but on older PP here with the aim of reseeding on a annual basis now. Would like to utilise/optimise our grazing better. Wouldn't rule out smaller paddocks in the future but would like to try it on field scale at present. Do most just top extra growth that isn't utilised as could see it getting too far ahead ahead of us before back to the start at peak growth.

 

[cows250]

Maybe I was a bit vague but on older PP here with the aim of reseeding on a annual basis now. Would like to utilise/optimise our grazing better. Wouldn't rule out smaller paddocks in the future but would like to try it on field scale at present. Do most just top extra growth that isn't utilised as could see it getting too far ahead ahead of us before back to the start at peak growth.

If you put enough animal pressure on a piece of ground there is no need to top, as all those seed heads will be striped and trampled. Going to the extreme at 1 million pounds an acre means each cow has 45 square feet to herself....holding areas for a parlors are ~15 square feet per cow. 1 hour of that and any thistle or weed is going to be eaten or pounded into the ground. As a rough guess, daily moves leave ~10% of the long stuff fully upright, which is good enough for my current situation.

If you are worried about too much grass, consider putting somebody else's animals on from July-September, when all the "short grass" has dried up to nothing.

Also, I have no concrete numbers, but in my opinion "peak growth" is much later in the growth cycle and year with mob grazing. That plant with 12" of growth has a massive solar panel to fuel growth to 3-4' high, and a massive root system after grazing tall to grow back from. That root system can be feeding water to the plant in July/August when it gets dry, and 2' of growth traps a lot of morning dew, providing even more moisture. So, even if you delay grazing a few pounds of new growth in the spring, there is far more growth to work with in late summer and fall. I had enough stockpiled grass that I was still grazing 2016 growth in April of 2017. Conditions vary across the globe, but there are ways to feed almost no hay.