Over Dosing Ewes

[Nithsdale]

I to have just done my hill ewes with RYCOBEN SC at the fluke rate specifically to kill adult flukes , SCOPS says ( if a spring treatment is required ( april - june ) then a flukicide with adult activity only can be used reducing the selection pressure associated with TCBZ )

Why not use Flukiver, or Trodax instead?

 

[cheviot53]

Because I use trodax and flukiver over the autumn winter , resistance to fasinex , plus even at a high dose rate rycoben sc costs a lot less per ewe

 

[bruce9001]

Tbh we had it mainly for the lambs for Nemo and at the same time just thought to give our ewes it to the fluke rate because as said above we use Flukiver during the winter and Rycoben costs less!
Ewes were showing visible signs of Fluke!!!

 

[Nithsdale]

Because I use trodax and flukiver over the autumn winter , resistance to fasinex , plus even at a high dose rate rycoben sc costs a lot less per ewe

That's fair enough.

You'd be better using Albacert or the likes... it's even cheaper as Rycoben

 

[cheviot53]

Maybe but rycoben is one of the better white wormers I think

 

[bovine]

Maybe but rycoben is one of the better white wormers I think

Nah - there is nothing between them.

I do worry that albendazole is a very similar molecule to triclabendazole. Look at the high rates of white drench resistance, I'd rather stick with Todax or Flukiver.

I don't believe that white drench has a role in adult sheep. The resistance levels are very high. I'm also not sold on the lungworm story.

 

[GrannyAching]

100% of English lowland farms are white drench resistant....100%?!?!?!

Scary - I know it's of farms tested but even so I assume it's a sensible sample size. I am really pleased that based on the post drench FEC done this year, I don't appear to have a problem with resistance. This after what what probably a worming regime based on the worst possible system. The white drench in ewes is worrying because even this year I was told "probably worth giving the ewes a white drench in a couple of weeks when you do the lambs" - ewe FEC at the time 400. Good eh?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Scary - I know it's of farms tested but even so I assume it's a sensible sample size. I am really pleased that based on the post drench FEC done this year, I don't appear to have a problem with resistance. This after what what probably a worming regime based on the worst possible system. The white drench in ewes is worrying because even this year I was told "probably worth giving the ewes a white drench in a couple of weeks when you do the lambs" - ewe FEC at the time 400. Good eh?

Who told you that?
I do worry about the advice seemingly dished out by those who should know better.

 

[Danllan]

Nah - there is nothing between them.

I do worry that albendazole is a very similar molecule to triclabendazole. Look at the high rates of white drench resistance, I'd rather stick with Todax or Flukiver.

I don't believe that white drench has a role in adult sheep. The resistance levels are very high. I'm also not sold on the lungworm story.

Hi Bovine, please clarify the current received wisdom in shorthand. I have had similar and slightly different feedback from two vets in the same practice, and have now read your contributions to the subject - which, all in all, confuses me somewhat... Looking at the SCOPS site and taking on board all I've come across, is the following right? (It's my condensing after filtering)

White for lambs at X months - age being flock dependent - and then forget about it.

Yellow for ewes on an irregular - ideally >two-yearly - basis.

Clear if needed, i.e. condition and FEC dictate.

Orange as a last ditch if you have a high resistance population.

And... what do you suggest in re' if there is believed / proven to be a problem with lungworm? (none here, just interested)

Thanks in advance.

 

[GrannyAching]

Who told you that?
I do worry about the advice seemingly dished out by those who should know better.

Someone who shouldn't have done. It has been dealt with but I'm still a bit cheesed off about it which is probably why I mentioned it. Needless to say if I had a 1000 sheep it would have cost me a lot of money. Hence the reason my microscope is in the post!

 

[Nithsdale]

Who told you that?
I do worry about the advice seemingly dished out by those who should know better.

I feel this is the biggest problem.

Vets - and the sales reps. who sell the drugs - should know the official guidelines chapter and verse, and should all know/give out the same advice.

But you can ask 3 different vets and get 3 different answers!! (and don't even get me started on the reps!).

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I feel this is the biggest problem.

Vets - and the sales reps. who sell the drugs - should know the official guidelines chapter and verse, and should all know/give out the same advice.

But you can ask 3 different vets and get 3 different answers!! (and don't even get me started on the reps!).

Did I see there was some official reprimanding of SQP advice recently?

 

[GrannyAching]

I feel this is the biggest problem.

Vets - and the sales reps. who sell the drugs - should know the official guidelines chapter and verse, and should all know/give out the same advice.

But you can ask 3 different vets and get 3 different answers!! (and don't even get me started on the reps!).

It was not my vet.

Did I see there was some official reprimanding of SQP advice recently?

I'd be interested in that link. We need a "shopper" - collecting enough muck to send to three places and see what came back from each.

 

[GrannyAching]

My microscope just came. Who could believe a bit of redwood stem could be so interesting? Best bit - with a steady hand, my camera will take pictures down it with reasonable clarity. Just need to get the rest of the kit now.

 

[Six Dogs]

Interesting ,we have not dosed ewes at lambing for years,however we have haemonchus so in the middle of some trial work with Bristol,to see if we have specific haemonchus resistance!
Have just dosed with ivermectin,have to agree one size doesn't fit all!

 

[cheviot53]

Nah - there is nothing between them.

I do worry that albendazole is a very similar molecule to triclabendazole. Look at the high rates of white drench resistance, I'd rather stick with Todax or Flukiver.

I don't believe that white drench has a role in adult sheep. The resistance levels are very high. I'm also not sold on the lungworm story.

The farm has resistance to triclabendazole but all group 1 still work . If I keep pouring flukiver and injecting trodax into the sheep then maybe in years to come resistance may occur so I need alternatives and white wormer is one of those . Don't understand your not sold on the lungworm story, if you can come up with an alternative for tens of sheep with a retching cough then I and my vet practise will listen , while I had never seen lungworm in sheep I am old enough to remember it in dairy heifers before vaccine , and my vet had seen it in sheep before . I have a full health plan made with my vet practise .

 

[JD-Kid]

big thing is test drenchs on farm to make sure they work or don't ..
intresting how people say white the drench with the highest restance yet vet here said due to mode of action clear drench has the highest levels of restance
big worry is some of the new drenchs will have a short life span cheep untested guns ,under doseing poor doseing systems etc etc reps selling them as a wonder do all

 

[bovine]

is the following right? (It's my condensing after filtering)

White for lambs at X months - age being flock dependent - and then forget about it.

Yellow for ewes on an irregular - ideally >two-yearly - basis.

Clear if needed, i.e. condition and FEC dictate.

Orange as a last ditch if you have a high resistance population.

And... what do you suggest in re' if there is believed / proven to be a problem with lungworm? (none here, just interested)

Thanks in advance.

Yes white for nematodirus - either based on forecasts and risk (not just the date!) or presence of eggs (I'd dose lambs with scour and a single nematodirus egg in May).

If you are going to do ewes then do them as close to lambing as possible. Rotate known effective products (yellow/clear in alternate years on most farms). Other times based on egg count (haemonchus is the main reason and then you should treat with Flukiver anyway). Leave a proportion untreated (ewes with singles, ewes in good condition).

I don't believe that orange or purple have any role in routine worming. If we get to that point the problem is massive. I'm not supportive of the suggestion of using it during summer to 'clear out' resistant worms. The role for these products (IMO) in in quarantine treatment.

I've never seen deaths in sheep with lungworm as the sole cause. I've seen it lots in cattle. Just because sheep are showing respiratory signs and have lungworm there does not mean that lungworm are the problem. I will be almost certain that there is an other underlying problem that can be dealt with (without wormer). I do agree that lungworm may be involved with other things in causing some disease, but dealing with the pasturella/mycoplasma etc will be far better than banging more wormer at these sheep. It strikes of sloppy diagnostics rather than lungworm as a primary problem.

And avoid long acting products!

 

[Man_in_black]