LandcruiserLad
Member
If scotland goes on it's own, I wondered what people's thoughts are on on RHI's and feed in tariffs. Are they reasonable safe or do they all get re-negotiated for Scotland. Any ideas?
"Renewable" income in Scotland if yes vote?
- Thread starter LandcruiserLad
- Start date
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
There is the Scottish Governments position and the negotiated position. Obviously we can't really know what will happen but from my enquiries I have the following response.
Dear David Barratt,
Thank you for your question via Scotreferendum.com enquiring about Feed In Tariffs (FITs) in an independent Scotland. I have been asked to reply.
As part of the planned Energy Partnership, the Scottish and Westminster Governments will have a shared objective to increase the deployment of renewable generation, requiring the continued support of consumers throughout these islands, as renewable energy competes with more established, higher carbon, forms of generation. The planned continuation of a GB-wide market will ensure that Scotland’s renewable energy resources continue to support the low carbon ambitions of the rest of the UK – supplied at the cost-effective prices that Scottish renewables can offer. This would include continuation of the Feed-in Tariff (FIT) scheme.
I hope this information is helpful.
Dear David Barratt,
Thank you for your question via Scotreferendum.com enquiring about Feed In Tariffs (FITs) in an independent Scotland. I have been asked to reply.
As part of the planned Energy Partnership, the Scottish and Westminster Governments will have a shared objective to increase the deployment of renewable generation, requiring the continued support of consumers throughout these islands, as renewable energy competes with more established, higher carbon, forms of generation. The planned continuation of a GB-wide market will ensure that Scotland’s renewable energy resources continue to support the low carbon ambitions of the rest of the UK – supplied at the cost-effective prices that Scottish renewables can offer. This would include continuation of the Feed-in Tariff (FIT) scheme.
I hope this information is helpful.
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
Given that Scotland contributes more tax per head than the rest of the uk, I personally see no reason why an independent Scottish Government who have pledged more ambitious renewables targets than the rUK could not successfully support investment in new and operational schemes. Ultimately, weather we remain part of the UK, go independent but share a GB wide market, or manage it from within, I am confident Scottish renewables will continue to be successful.
It's also been discussed here (http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/fits-and-independance.29148/)
It's also been discussed here (http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/fits-and-independance.29148/)
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
In other words, we haven't got a clue whether what we'd like to happen will in fact happen, and whether the English energy bill payers will be happy to continue to shove £500m (and rising) in renewables subsidies to what has become a foreign country. But its more than our jobs are worth to admit such things, so we'll stick out some general platitudes and hope you buy it.
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
Well the money would come from the energy operators SSE and Scottish Power. While they do Operate in England, I think it will be Scottish energy bills in the large part paying for this. It is arguably cheaper than developing expensive nuclear plants anyway. It would be very difficult for rUK to meet renewable targets without Scottish Renewables and the alternative is buying even more energy from France (also a 'foreign' country).
Woolgatherer
Member
- Location
- Angus
So would an independent Scotland still be on the national grid? If so, how will that work? If not, there's a new can of worms to open there!
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
Well the national grid is fairly interlinked between England and Scotland. I'm in no way an expert on it but I wonder how Northern Ireland is connected? via Scotland or England? The rest of the world seems to get by just fine with national grid borders so I don't think an Independent Scotland would be any more difficult.
LandcruiserLad
Member
All sounds reasonable thanks. I'm about to sign up for 20kw of solar panels from Minel energy (Newcastle)
I need to do a DNO application to test the grid which takes approx 40 days.
Minel tell me I can sign the agreement now and they will put in the contract that if scotland gets independence I can pull out if I wish. Sounds like a fairly good deal?
I need to do a DNO application to test the grid which takes approx 40 days.
Minel tell me I can sign the agreement now and they will put in the contract that if scotland gets independence I can pull out if I wish. Sounds like a fairly good deal?
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
Well you could always go with a Scottish company to start with ;-)
But in all seriousness, there's no reason that under independence your solar panels would not receive the income if the company who installed them happen to be in England. Scottish Power operate the grid in the Scottish Borders and you can't choose a different DNO. The location of the installer/operator is fairly irrelevant. It's nice of them to throw in a get-out-clause for you , but I wouldn't see any need to use it if we get independence.
But in all seriousness, there's no reason that under independence your solar panels would not receive the income if the company who installed them happen to be in England. Scottish Power operate the grid in the Scottish Borders and you can't choose a different DNO. The location of the installer/operator is fairly irrelevant. It's nice of them to throw in a get-out-clause for you , but I wouldn't see any need to use it if we get independence.
Woolgatherer
Member
- Location
- Angus
As far as I'm aware other independant countries didn't share a power supply, infrastructure, maintenance etc before independance. Just a thought!
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
Just found this (http://www2.nationalgrid.com/About-us/What-we-do/Electricity/) Quite an interesting read. It seems N.Ireland is quite separate already
Woolgatherer
Member
- Location
- Angus
Thank you, that's good to know!
Jock
Member
- Location
- Central Scotland
You have nothing to worry about.
The oil money and savings from Trident are going to pay for absolutely everything anyone could ever wish for.
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
Really? Scotland gets approx one third of all renewable subsidies raised in the UK, £500m out of about £1.5bn. This is raised from levies on household bills and on industrial users. Given Scotland is roughly 10% of the UK economy it probably raises about £150m of those subsidies within Scotland. It therefore gets about £350m per year from households and business in the rUK. There are about 2.5 million households in Scotland, if you had to raise the £350m from them in extra levies, that would add an extra £140 to your average household energy bill. Do you think thats viable, given that would just be a standstill position, ie to pay for windfarms etc already built? You could add much more on top for any new schemes, which I believe are planned for Scotland.
David@SBA
Member
- Location
- South Queensferry
You appear to have done some maths and I don't have the figures to hand to refute your claims, but this seems to assume that rUK will no longer want/need to buy any Scottish energy... It would be a rather hostile move for rUK to make and I'm not sure how practical it would be given that both DNOs in Scotland are cross border. I struggle to buy into any argument that Suggests Scotland (with a GDP per capita higher than the UK) would be unable to support itself.
Davey
Member
- Location
- Derbyshire
There are loads of cans waiting to be opened. My cousin recently got a promotion in the army which means relocating to Scotland, army said they wouldn't be moving his wife & kids until after the vote as if Scotland votes for independence they will be withdrawing all British Army personnel. Then there is the can that belongs to the Navy & Airforce.
- Location
- Cumbria
Lots of rhetoric and assumptions here, similar to the SNP white paper, see an extraction below: This is the answer to the question:
Will an independent Scotland maintain current levels of support for renewable energy?
Answer: The current Scottish Government’s policy is that it should. Spare generating capacity throughout the UK is now at its lowest level for a generation and Ofgem forecasts it will contract even further. Without Scottish renewable energy supplies, there would already be a shortage in capacity.
Retention of the single GB-wide energy market will bring benefits of energy security to customers and businesses both north and south of the border. While detailed discussions between all parties will be necessary, we believe that it is in the interests of all that the central aspects of support for low carbon generation, as established and planned under Electricity Market Reform, should remain.
An integrated and single energy market involves customers throughout GB paying on an equitable basis for a wide range of benefits, including stable prices, security of supply and access to renewable generation. Scottish renewable production is among the most cost-effective in the UK and offers clear advantages to the rest of the UK in meeting its EU obligations, as is reflected by National Grid’s decision to invest to upgrade transmission connections between Scotland and England.
Some comments:
The UK (not GB) RO target, set under the Kyoto agreement included Scotland and Wales, slight variations are allowed and occur due to devolution. However the tariff values are the same. So if Scotland wins independence, then what ? As a new Country (no longer part of the UK) it is assumed they will have to negotiate with DECC and the UK Government for their share of the RO pot previously agreed. These negotiations may be protracted and time consuming ( If anyone has dealt with DECC they will know where I am coming from). This will undermine the funders confidence I am sure, as well as slow down deployment, how this will affect projects in the current pipeline...who knows ?
The upgrading of the infrastructure is on-going and is mainly due to the lack of investment historically.
Why can the word should , highlighted above not read will. In my view, it is because like many other regulatory and policy requirements, they have simply not been thought through yet.
This is NOT scare mongering (which appears to be the SNP answer to anything difficult) however knowing the delicacy and pace at DECC and Ofgem, Scottish Independence and a negotiated severance of our Union is likely to take a long time.
Will an independent Scotland maintain current levels of support for renewable energy?
Answer: The current Scottish Government’s policy is that it should. Spare generating capacity throughout the UK is now at its lowest level for a generation and Ofgem forecasts it will contract even further. Without Scottish renewable energy supplies, there would already be a shortage in capacity.
Retention of the single GB-wide energy market will bring benefits of energy security to customers and businesses both north and south of the border. While detailed discussions between all parties will be necessary, we believe that it is in the interests of all that the central aspects of support for low carbon generation, as established and planned under Electricity Market Reform, should remain.
An integrated and single energy market involves customers throughout GB paying on an equitable basis for a wide range of benefits, including stable prices, security of supply and access to renewable generation. Scottish renewable production is among the most cost-effective in the UK and offers clear advantages to the rest of the UK in meeting its EU obligations, as is reflected by National Grid’s decision to invest to upgrade transmission connections between Scotland and England.
Some comments:
The UK (not GB) RO target, set under the Kyoto agreement included Scotland and Wales, slight variations are allowed and occur due to devolution. However the tariff values are the same. So if Scotland wins independence, then what ? As a new Country (no longer part of the UK) it is assumed they will have to negotiate with DECC and the UK Government for their share of the RO pot previously agreed. These negotiations may be protracted and time consuming ( If anyone has dealt with DECC they will know where I am coming from). This will undermine the funders confidence I am sure, as well as slow down deployment, how this will affect projects in the current pipeline...who knows ?
The upgrading of the infrastructure is on-going and is mainly due to the lack of investment historically.
Why can the word should , highlighted above not read will. In my view, it is because like many other regulatory and policy requirements, they have simply not been thought through yet.
This is NOT scare mongering (which appears to be the SNP answer to anything difficult) however knowing the delicacy and pace at DECC and Ofgem, Scottish Independence and a negotiated severance of our Union is likely to take a long time.
Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
It is a very difficult problem.
There is no doubt that Scotland will have a surplus of renewable and other power.
However unlike the rest of Europe there is only possible customer unless they put a very long cable under the North Sea.
As with Germany dumping green power into Poland, Scotland will either have to turn the generators off or accept whatever English power companies care to pay.if they are not short. Currently power retails at about 4.5 p a unit.
Currently ,They would have no liability to pay FITS. This is a national payment.
As we know liability for FITs is the big power companies, but English /Welsh based companies would have no responsibility for Scottish producers.
There is no doubt that Scotland will have a surplus of renewable and other power.
However unlike the rest of Europe there is only possible customer unless they put a very long cable under the North Sea.
As with Germany dumping green power into Poland, Scotland will either have to turn the generators off or accept whatever English power companies care to pay.if they are not short. Currently power retails at about 4.5 p a unit.
Currently ,They would have no liability to pay FITS. This is a national payment.
As we know liability for FITs is the big power companies, but English /Welsh based companies would have no responsibility for Scottish producers.