Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
It's at this point that we need @dontknowanything to interject to say, "Don't start that again", only to be roundly ignored for at least 20 pages.
The £ value of fym
- Thread starter Joe Boy
- Start date
It's at this point that we need @dontknowanything to interject to say, "Don't start that again", only to be roundly ignored for at least 20 pages.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I know a farmer, who was actually related to Elmsted strangely enough, who uses a LOT of organic matter. Huge dairy, piles of sewage sludge, paper waste and all sorts heaped everywhere. I am told, but haven't seen the data myself, that his indicies have been going up and up to the point that he might have to stop applications in some fields. His crops always look pretty fantastic and he only shallow discs everything before drilling. As far as experiential evidences goes, I always find a tour round his farm highly persuasive.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Just reading this Rothampstead paper which has got some really interesting quotes: http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_planta/1_159.pdf.
One good extract:
One good extract:
The plot receiving FYM has gained C steadily and has still not reached equilibrium after 120 years. The organic content of the unmanured plot has remained unchanged over the last 100 years. The plot that received FYM annually over the 20 years 1852-1872 still contains more organic C and N than the plot that has been unmanured throughout, even though 100 years have elapsed since the last FYM application.
In my mind the power of FYM in undeniable.
- Location
- Hampshire
We have obsene P indices around the dairies, 4s and 5s.
We had a thorough soil audit done in the eighties when my sister and I had returned from Seale Hayne, and our father sadly had died.
We were told that a lot of the fields would never need phosphate again!
We do now have problems with potash, when we take large silage cuts, espe ially lucerne.
We had a thorough soil audit done in the eighties when my sister and I had returned from Seale Hayne, and our father sadly had died.
We were told that a lot of the fields would never need phosphate again!
We do now have problems with potash, when we take large silage cuts, espe ially lucerne.
generations of farmers are rarely wrong, yet they never had a pier reviewed paper or lab result to refer to
- Location
- Darlington
I think OM is vitally important to our future but not the be all and end all.
Clive's CTM is equally important IMO
No Till or Min Till depending on what the land requires to establish a crop with minimum disturbance and maximum opportunity for root development are also essential.
Clive's CTM is equally important IMO
No Till or Min Till depending on what the land requires to establish a crop with minimum disturbance and maximum opportunity for root development are also essential.
I use MANNER to value organic manure applications. The value of the N would be the market price for AN or urea. The CROP AVAILABLE N for FYM can be as low as 5 percent, this figure is not achieved by dividing the value of AN by 224, it is much more complex than that.
Chae1
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
We put muck on grass this year and have seen a big improvement in grass growth. Clover seems to thrive with it also. So in my opinion nature definitely takes it down into soil. Muck would have been rotted in midden for 6-7 months.
- Location
- Spilsby Lincolnshire
So please explain the complexity, I have always found RB209 a good reference point , Am I wrong? (I do not treat RB209 as God
but we should respect the work put into it!
Not very easy to type at the minute, en route to Tenerife for holiday. Variables would be; type of OM, time of year, crop, spreading techniques, delay to incorporation, rainfall, soil type, etc. Have a look at MANNER I find it very useful.
This has got me thinking instead of spreading at 20t/ha spread at 10/t ha and incorporate 1/2 tonne of Fiberphos into each 10t of muck to give a decent whack of nutrients. That way I could cover twice the area with manure but still apply the same nutrients.
Now, Anyone know how to get hold of paper waste in Essex? Thinking of adding that to make it go a bit further and improve the c:n ratio a bit.
Reading all of this mucky chit chat has got me all excited about composting fym again. [emoji243] [emoji90]
Now, Anyone know how to get hold of paper waste in Essex? Thinking of adding that to make it go a bit further and improve the c:n ratio a bit.
Reading all of this mucky chit chat has got me all excited about composting fym again. [emoji243] [emoji90]
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
No coincidence IMO that all the record cereal and OSR yields last year were on farms using some sort of manures IIRC.
Do you still have your turner?
Are you adding any extra carbon type stuff to it to balance the c:n ratio? I add Woodchip to mine but this year finding it's still trying to go a bit sticky.
MNBVCXZ
Member
- Location
- Central Southern UK
I'm not suggesting how much N is available or not in FYM, i'm suggesting that if you take the available N in FYM and multiply it by the cost per KG of AN without taking into consideration the conversion factor of AN you would be putting a false value on the FYM.
Have a good time in Tenerife.
What kind of cost can used windrow machines be bought at ? Looks like it makes a great product
Coximus
Member
Its been pasture for 80+ years, the last 20 its been used for horses, poo picked, poached and generally nothing done other than maintaining drainage and piping a spring. Ground very heavy clay (blue, 3 inch spade penetration when dry, but roots down to 6-7 inches when moist in spring.
PK were at 0 now at 1 from feeding out over winter.
Currently locked up, been mob stocked with sheep.
I can plaster it with horse muck for free - Or would feeding sheep on it have the same effect (more manure basically).
There's one on eBay at the minute for around 10k
Hmm. Is N use efficiency already built into manure availability figures? Just taking 5-10% of total N seems simplistic but as Luke said, there are many other variables that affect it like which form of N, weather at application, incorporation method & time delay. Poultry muck looks great on paper but within 24 hours most of the ureic N has evaporated.
Can @NeilT123 or @360farmsupport add anything to this? Should we be allowing for N use efficiency or is muck application too inconsistent to compare realisitcally?