Brexit: So let's have some positives from the Leave lot

Remain: Indoctrinated, Idealists, Beligerant, Dictatorial, Totalatarian

Leave: Liberated, Experienced, Patient, Relfective, Observant, Resilient, Determined.

Old McDonald said:

. I wonder about Bovril, Tesla; the Cornish fellow, Owd Fred and one or two others from FWi.

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I'm voting out.
I've got three big 8' by 4' 'Leave' signs up in strategic places round the farm, and only voted for UKIP members in any elections for many years.

I stated my case early on in several of these threads, but it seems like the same principle as shouting at the dark hoping it will become light with most people on here.
(Eventually it might dawn on them, but not in time to be useful!)

I'm principally opposed to us being in the EU because I think the UK can govern the UK better than they can in Brussels. I may be accused of harking back to halcyon days that never existed, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
I see lists of things that make us British, the lack of guns, especially policemen; quietly queuing; reservedness; stubborn, resourceful, loyal and willing to fight to the end. I don't want to lose any of that.

I realise it's too late to a certain extent, 'the enemy within' has caused far greater damage to the British way of life than the EU has so far, but this is something that we can do something about. And the EU is only just getting started. It's amused me seeing Old Mac getting frustrated at people's inability to acknowledge his point that the aim of Brussels has been total integration of all European countries from the outset, but that is the blinkered mindset of some. Of course Turkey and others will join us soon, of course we will be pressured into the Euro as soon as circumstances suit us for a week, of course there will be a centralised army, and of course any exemptions our dear prime minister thinks he's got will count for nothing.

The barmy statistics based on totally made up guess work about how our economy will go are annoying from the stay in side, along with all their other predictions of doom. But then I also get disappointed with some of the more outlandishstatements made for getting out. Although I must say that the leading politicians on the outside campaign have conducted themselves with far more dignity, and it's some of the press and online stuff that's frustrating.

So there's my case, @Old McDonald and @Henarar. I'm for out!

manhill said:

If we come out now, that's it, FINAL!
If we stay, i.e. don't do anything and wait and see if this shock has had any good effect on the EU, can't we look at it again in a timescale that suits us?
This referendum is our business, not the EU's. We can have as many referendums to leave as we like.
If we left and wanted to rejoin it would then involve the EU.
Is it a good idea to give it a second chance?

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It took 50 years to get an EU referendum with the opposition of ALL of the mainstream parties.

It was only the threat of loss of power for the Conservatives and the SNP which brought about a Referendum... if we vote Remain we'll never see another one.

glasshouse said:

I disagree.
The one thing that is driving brexit is uncontrolled migration from former soviet bloc.
EFTA would restrict immigration while leaving trade alone, which is what uk folk signed up to in 73
However, that would not address the lunatic CAP

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How does it restrict immigration, as one of the main points of EFTA is it's compliance with Schengen?

Sleepy said:

Remain: liberal, pacifist, younger, content, happy

Leave: extreme, older, intolerant, angry, unhappy

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Remain: Afraid of change ,desperate, depressed, worried.

Leave: Looking forward, Excited!

Forage Trader said:

so you think the British vote of confidence to remain will shock them into change

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If its a close thing I think it will. If they're that scared of us leaving they can't ignore us in future.

bovrill said:

the EU is only just getting started. It's amused me seeing Old Mac getting frustrated at people's inability to acknowledge his point that the aim of Brussels has been total integration of all European countries from the outset, but that is the blinkered mindset of some.

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I actually didn't know that, as I said to @Old McDonald on here I was not old enough to vote last time so the EU has just been something that is "there" and that was that until now, But I do acknowledge his point
One of the reasons I will vote out is because of the way the EU is heading and not wanting to be a part of this, My biggest worry if we leave is still our governments support for UK farmers and farming which over the years has not been good to say the least and also those that claim to represent us seem ineffective and about as easy to vote out as the EU commissioners

JP1 said:

Not exactly.

I'm sure Brits' stoicism will help whichever way the vote goes.

I was hoping for some vision; a pact with BRIC nations or a pact with other free areas like Canada or Australia. A big project to replace HS2. A vision for excellence in bio-medical sciences funded direct by a saving on the EU contribution. Instead we got nothing

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I like very much what you've posted.

But it's got to be given a chance.

We've seen what 50 years of the EU looks like.

Our history shows we have great visionaries we just need the environment for a new epoc of enlightenment.

We get that chance in a general election post Leave.

JP1 said:

Not exactly.

I'm sure Brits' stoicism will help whichever way the vote goes.

I was hoping for some vision; a pact with BRIC nations or a pact with other free areas like Canada or Australia. A big project to replace HS2. A vision for excellence in bio-medical sciences funded direct by a saving on the EU contribution. Instead we got nothing

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Trouble is @JP1 , that the people on the Leave side are not in Government, or even the Opposition for that matter. So anything the Leave campaign might like, such as what you were hoping for, can immediately be shot down in flames by Remainers.

The Leave campaign know what their desires are and have these been pointed out or hinted at many times. But until we have actually left, nobody really knows what is possible.

Have you not in effect, tried to set a trap? None of us on here can possibly suggest with any conviction, what you are looking for as answers. Nonetheless, we Leavers are exited at the prospect of taking back control of what we could do.

On the other hand, where is the optimism from Remain that a big project to replace HS2, or a vision for excellence in bio-medical sciences. How do you think these could happen by staying in the EU?

JP1 said:

Not exactly.

I'm sure Brits' stoicism will help whichever way the vote goes.

I was hoping for some vision; a pact with BRIC nations or a pact with other free areas like Canada or Australia. A big project to replace HS2. A vision for excellence in bio-medical sciences funded direct by a saving on the EU contribution. Instead we got nothing

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I don't really see how we can get 'anything', we're not voting in a government in waiting, we're instructing the government that we want to leave the eu.

Osborne has said HS2 is scrapped if we leave teh eu anyway...

Remain just tells us, well the eu is crap, granted and we have not bothered to reform it before, and we won't after, but at least the slow demise won't affect you as much as a slight readjustment from brexit and then we prosper later, which you won't get if we remain.

JP1 said:

Not exactly.

I'm sure Brits' stoicism will help whichever way the vote goes.

I was hoping for some vision; a pact with BRIC nations or a pact with other free areas like Canada or Australia. A big project to replace HS2. A vision for excellence in bio-medical sciences funded direct by a saving on the EU contribution. Instead we got nothing

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wrong forum

Sleepy said:

Reasons for staying?

Peace. Apart from a few terrorist nutters, everyone in the EU seems to get on fairly well. Just look at the support other countries gave when Paris was attacked etc. Peace & working together will certainly not be improved by leaving.

Freedom of travel. Each person in the UK pays about 120 quid a year, and for that we get the right to roam anywhere in Europe. If we have an accident, they will look after and care for me. We can spend the winter living in the Alps and not have to worry about visas and swapping driving licenses or car taxes etc. So for me I think the 120 quid a year is good value.

Freedom of trade. I can sell to anywhere in the EU, and not have to worry about import duties or any other rubbish. Likewise I can buy from EU suppliers without a second thought. Buying from US or China is fraught with hassle and costs.
The 120 quid is very cheap for me when DHL charge £400 admin fee for an import from China.

Economy. Things are relatively stable at the moment. Yes it's feasible that our economy could improve outside of Europe, but it's equally feasible that we would end up in a mess. Our economies are all so interconnected that the failure of any financial system will affect everyone, in EU or not.
In my mind we are better to try and preserve & fix what we already have, than try and find out what happens if things implode.

Great Britain. I'm fairly certain that if we vote to leave, the SNP lot will swiftly call for another referendum, and this time get it so they can rejoin the EU.
So then we will be Great England & Ireland and we will be even smaller player with no future Oil revenues either. I also foresee trouble in Ireland with the new "border" stirring up all sorts of past problems.

Are they valid positives in your mind?

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Yes they are valid points but i disagree with some of them especially the peace ones which is one of the main reasons i want out. the eu has meddled in the ukraine which could cause more problems and the yugoslaiva problem was in my view the situation the rest of europe could be in if we are pushed to become one state, if we went back to the old common market then i would vote for that but if we vote remain then before long we will be faced with jpining the euro and superstate, that is the long term goal

JP1 said:

Brexit threads on TFF. Why do you say that?

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cause as farmers we cant answer your questions as @Two Tone has already stated we don't make policy

Sleepy said:

If the UK left the EU, but Scotland became independent and managed to rejoin the EU, I imagine Scotland would do extremely well as presumably it would have some sort of free trade agreement with the rest of England.

So foreign companies could setup in Scotland, and benefit from being in the EU whilst also having easy trade with the newly independent and now smaller U.K.

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You are naive to the fact that if Scotland was a member of the EU there would be no free trade agreement with England without an agreement with the rest of the EU.

Going back to costs of doing business with China, who do you think puts the trade barriers up with China?