A fair salary.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

T Hectares said:
Thick Farmer and Hilly, do you two cheery fellows employ anyone ? You must have a Que of willing workers lining up to work for such optimistic and insightfull chaps.

I would of thought 28 k + house would be a starting point, without knowing owt about you.

I don't no but I would have a que at the gate if I offerd a job for 26k, farm work is not a get rich quick scheme its glorified labouring, you need to be a time served plumber or sparky to hit 30k because they are trades farming is semi skilled at the best.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

GTB said:
They probably live in a different world to you lot, same as I do. I live on a fairly big beef and sheep hill farm and I find it mind boggling that farms can make such profit to be able to pay such a wage, leave alone employ a manager etc etc. I only take a small allowance for myself and my two boys work for low wages. We simply couldn't afford to employ anyone else. If they're paying you 26k take it and be grateful you aren't working for yourself or the bank.

I bet 99% of farmer employing and paying 25k upwards are paying there staff more than they pay themselves, I would rather cut back and do less than do that ! the whole reason of employing is that they work for you not the other way around.

Brisel · Jan 7, 2014

Farms need to pay a fair wage or they won't attract good staff as they will leave the industry. A vegetable grower should be able to pay a fair rate.

When you work for your self at least you have a farm at the end of it - employees need to live & save for retirement, not just exist.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

Brisel said:
Another way of coming at this would be to look at the most recent Ag Wages Order to select a grade. Add a bit for inflation then work out how many hours/week you do in overtime to arrive at a salary guide figure.

I'd put you at around Grade 4 £8.21/hr basic or £320.19/week. Add 21 hours overtime/week to get to an average of 60 hrs/week @ 1.5x = £258.62/week for 48 weeks/year puts a total of around £29k/year.

Be cheaper to have have 2 part timers, and probably better.

Glass half full · Jan 7, 2014

30k plus a house. providing housing gives more loyalty. if no house would need to be 38k. you get what you pay for im afraid. you are asking for a lot of skills, its a false economy skimping on wages.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

Brisel said:
Farms need to pay a fair wage or they won't attract good staff as they will leave the industry. A vegetable grower should be able to pay a fair rate.

When you work for your self at least you have a farm at the end of it - employees need to live & save for retirement, not just exist.

A lot of good lads have already left the industry, not just workers but also farmers, I never hear of many coming back into it once they have gone.

RJ1 · Jan 7, 2014

Hilly said:
I don't no but I would have a que at the gate if I offerd a job for 26k, farm work is not a get rich quick scheme its glorified labouring, you need to be a time served plumber or sparky to hit 30k because they are trades farming is semi skilled at the best.

Sounds like you are confusing the work done by the OP with throwing a few cows up on a hill and see what sticks after 6 months!

Nothing wrong with that system you mentioned in the suckler thread by the way! But what's said in the OP seems a hell of a lot of work/hours and more than labouring at that.

GTB · Jan 7, 2014

I'm certainly not saying workers don't deserve a proper wage I'm just saying that the type of farming we do here couldn't afford to pay that kind of money.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

RJ1 said:
Sounds like you are confusing the work done by the OP with throwing a few cows up on a hill and see what sticks after 6 months! Nothing wrong with that system you mentioned in the suckler thread by the way! But what's said in the OP seems a hell of a lot of work/hours and more than labouring at that.

First of all the system I mentiond in another thread is not one I deploy my self , my system is more intensive, secondly the op reads to me like a tractor drivers job with a little responsibility nothing more, I own and run a farm and do everything from fencing to records and accounts and am responsible for everything and I mean everything ! if I f**k up we are all out on our ear big time that's responsibility, making sure the tractor has enough fuel or has had its service on time is childs play my man!

Brisel · Jan 7, 2014

Hilly said:
Be cheaper to have have 2 part timers, and probably better.

Perhaps, but the OP's business is pretty busy for most of the year.

Staff should add value to the business that far exceeds their remuneration. If they want a piece of the action then performance related pay might be appropriate but I'm not sure how this could be applied to a general farm worker without specific income generating streams that they are responsible for.

After 2012 I'm glad that I'm not on PRP but in 2011 we had a great year & the rewards went to the risk taker i.e. the business owner. I just got my salary as usual.

jimmer · Jan 7, 2014

Forage Trader said:
Why do you need 4 managers to look after one and a bit staff ? And how much do they earn, do they do any work

just what i was thinking

RJ1 · Jan 7, 2014

Hilly said:
First of all the system I mentiond in another thread is not one I deploy my self , my system is more intensive, secondly the op reads to me like a tractor drivers job with a little responsibility nothing more, I own and run a farm and do everything from fencing to records and accounts and am responsible for everything and I mean everything ! if I fudge up we are all out on our ear big time that's responsibility, making sure the tractor has enough fuel or has had its service on time is childs play my man!

I didn't say it was your system, but see nothing wrong with it if it was.

I appreciate what you say about running your own farm and the responsibility and accountability that entails. But I would hazard a guess (just from your name, so I may be wrong) that the OP's farm is vastly different to yours. Looks like a lot of man hours needed. Also, in any business if you want a good employee who has skills which could be used in another industry (or by a competitor for that matter), you're going to have to pay a competitive salary. A farm owner may be happy to receive a lower wage if he receives additional benefits from running the farm and the capital value goes up. An employee just gets the headline wage and that's got to provide for now and a bit put away for his future.

Baling Hay · Jan 7, 2014

Hilly said:
Not up here it wouldn't, probably more responsibility in McDonald`s handling cash and dealing with public. £10hr is fair for farmwork imo its above min wage.

£10 an hour is no way near enough for this guy, maybe all right for just a general tractor driver but he is spraying vegetables and drilling etc. which holds a lot of responsibility or else the crops are sh!t, Plus he has to work with chemicals etc.

Hilly, you have to remember also that he is probably in the South of England which has a very different cost of living to Scotland.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

RJ1 said:
I didn't say it was your system, but see nothing wrong with it if it was.

I appreciate what you say about running your own farm and the responsibility and accountability that entails. But I would hazard a guess (just from your name, so I may be wrong) that the OP's farm is vastly different to yours. Looks like a lot of man hours needed. Also, in any business if you want a good employee who has skills which could be used in another industry (or by a competitor for that matter), you're going to have to pay a competitive salary. A farm owner may be happy to receive a lower wage if he receives additional benefits from running the farm and the capital value goes up. An employee just gets the headline wage and that's got to provide for now and a bit put away for his future.

I have gave that a lot of thought over the years and came to the conclusion its not good I would not be happy with that, my father used to employ 30+men(not farming) he would have never entertained that what soever, that is not a healthy business decision IMHO, if that is happening its time for a change.

Baling Hay · Jan 7, 2014

The attitude of some farmers with regards to paying staff is disgusting really.

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

Steakeater said:
£10 an hour is no way near enough for this guy, maybe all right for just a general tractor driver but he is spraying vegetables and drilling etc. which holds a lot of responsibility or else the crops are sh!t, Plus he has to work with chemicals etc.

Hilly, you have to remember also that he is probably in the South of England which has a very different cost of living to Scotland.

Fair point, to a point.

Brisel · Jan 7, 2014

Steakeater said:
The attitude of some farmers with regards to paying staff is disgusting really.

Sad, but true. It's not unique to farming though.

RJ1 · Jan 7, 2014

Hilly said:
I have gave that a lot of thought over the years and came to the conclusion its not good I would not be happy with that, my father used to employ 30+men(not farming) he would have never entertained that what soever, that is not a healthy business decision IMHO, if that is happening its time for a change.

I, in fact, agree with you but it was just put forward as a suggestion as to why some might be willing to suffer a lower wage and why it might colour their view on the wages of their staff. As you say, not the case in any other business.

Baling Hay · Jan 7, 2014

Put it like this, I used to work within engineering after university. A factory worker with no qualifications building cars started on £28k a year for a 37 hour week, they then got 25 days holiday plus statutory days, a 12% annual pension contribution if they put 4% of their own salary in, overtime at time and a half plus double time on Sundays and that was just starting out. Guys who had been there a while and built a skill were on over 50k and NONE of them had to drive machinery worth as much as a ferrari, had to handle dangerous chemicals, work long hours int he summer with no extra pay etc. etc. Some of them also got paid to a degree part time and then move into a higher position. How many farmers do that?

Hilly · Jan 7, 2014

Steakeater said:
Put it like this, I used to work within engineering after university. A factory worker with no qualifications building cars started on £28k a year for a 37 hour week, they then got 25 days holiday plus statutory days, a 12% annual pension contribution if they put 4% of their own salary in, overtime at time and a half plus double time on Sundays and that was just starting out. Guys who had been there a while and built a skill were on over 50k and NONE of them had to drive machinery worth as much as a ferrari, had to handle dangerous chemicals, work long hours int he summer with no extra pay etc. etc. Some of them also got paid to a degree part time and then move into a higher position. How many farmers do that?

None I suggest you go back there to work, everything is different and farming is what it is.

A fair salary.

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