Smaller farmers should receive greater subsidy per ha than larger farmers - discuss.

renewablejohn · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
Hence your view that there shouldn't be any scheme at all.

Again, playing devil's advocate, some people would argue that bigger farms are more profitable. I'm more familiar with the arable side of things and there is a general trend in the figures I get from benchmarking from our accountant that the bigger farmers are more profitable per ha before subsidies. Do you think that pattern is not generally correct, or do you think it's different for mixed and livestock farmers, or different in different parts of the country?

I would take on any arable farmer if your talking profitability per ha yet horticulture always ends up with zero subsidies. As for this absurd 5 ha rule if you have 5 ha of glass your in the big boys league of horticulture with your main competitor being the dutch.

bobk · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
So you think reduced support with increasing scale is better than basing it on geographical area or soil classification (i.e. marginal hill land gets more than the Fens)? I naively thought that you would just get big hill farmers pushing out smaller hill farmers, but from what you say maybe that wouldn't happen?

You're putting words in to my mouth , put it in house buying context without the 1st time buyers there's no market .

Feldspar · Sep 5, 2016

bobk said:
You're putting words in to my mouth , put it in house buying context without the 1st time buyers there's no market .

So I guess something a bit like the help to buy scheme is designed to help first time buyers (separate argument about whether it's effective) which as you say maintains the market. With that in mind, why not just have subsidies for new entrants into farming rather than extra support for smaller farmers?

bobk · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
So I guess something a bit like the help to buy scheme is designed to help first time buyers (separate argument about whether it's effective) which as you say maintains the market. With that in mind, why not just have subsidies for new entrants into farming rather than extra support for smaller farmers?

We need new blood buying small units , the county councils used to help until they went bust.

Feldspar · Sep 5, 2016

bobk said:
We need new blood buying small units , the county councils used to help until they went bust.

Would you have extra support for new entrants as well as more support for smaller farms, or just one of those two?

bobk · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
Would you have extra support for new entrants as well as more support for smaller farms, or just one of those two?

The money goes to the farm ... if they can't hack it..

Still Farming · Sep 5, 2016

bobk said:
We need new blood buying small units , the county councils used to help until they went bust.

Or SOLD them off like around here for a song !!!
Terrible.

Still Farming · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
So do you mean that on average smaller farms are more profitable than bigger farms, but that their profitability varies more about that higher average through the years?

If your an Accountant -you can juggle figures to say anything !!!

Feldspar · Sep 5, 2016

Still Farming said:
If your an Accountant -you can juggle figures to say anything !!!

You can, but how do you otherwise know that smaller farms are more profitable than bigger ones?

Still Farming · Sep 5, 2016

Feldspar said:
You can, but how do you otherwise know that smaller farms are more profitable than bigger ones?

Crystal ball ?

Feldspar · Sep 5, 2016

Still Farming said:
Crystal ball ?

Can I borrow yours?!

Henarar · Sep 5, 2016

We need to know what the subsidy is for before we say who should get what

thewalrus · Sep 5, 2016

Id have a upper limit of £50,000

rob1 · Sep 5, 2016

Just pay an amount per person working in the business, farmer and spouse get one and a half amount unless spouse has a full time job elsewhere and then flat rate for anyone working and paying Nat ins

Henarar · Sep 5, 2016

rob1 said:
Just pay an amount per person working in the business, farmer and spouse get one and a half amount unless spouse has a full time job elsewhere and then flat rate for anyone working and paying Nat ins

the amount you would pay each worker would be interesting

rob1 · Sep 5, 2016

Henarar said:
the amount you would pay each worker would be interesting

£10,000 0r 20 at most, would encourage employment so prob not cost the tax payer as much as the schemes do now, would help small farms and big farms would get a decent amount if they employed workers, after all the original idea of the CAP was to keep workers on farms to keep rural areas vibrant, in its present form it lines the pockets of mega land owners and discourages employment

fudge · Sep 5, 2016

Lots of options for helping active businesses big and small. Paying farmers for environmental work would be more popular than the current set up and farmers could always opt out. Beyond that I think help for rural businesses generally would be of great benefit. Things like better planning processes, grants for infrastructure, govt sponsorship of apprentiships. The list is endless. But anything that promotes rural employment rather than an acre counting exercise.

Henarar · Sep 5, 2016

rob1 said:
£10,000 0r 20 at most, would encourage employment so prob not cost the tax payer as much as the schemes do now, would help small farms and big farms would get a decent amount if they employed workers, after all the original idea of the CAP was to keep workers on farms to keep rural areas vibrant, in its present form it lines the pockets of mega land owners and discourages employment

well mum would have to come out of retirement and we would be sorted

two-cylinder · Sep 5, 2016

The claimant must be an individual residing in the UK and paying tax here?

Bossfarmer · Sep 5, 2016

The current payment per acres works fine and is the fairest way

Smaller farmers should receive greater subsidy per ha than larger farmers - discuss.

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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