True GUTH is from Devon so it is a struggle
Farming REALITY CHECK!
- Thread starter Bossfarmer
- Start date
FonterraFarmer
Member
- Location
- Waikato, New Zealand
A suit for a farm managers job?
One of the things that I find unique to NZ is that its not uncommon for the "boss" to wear overalls or even black singlet/shorts and Redbands, and not just in farming either.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
@Bossfarmer, Imagine the following two scenarios, who do you think should be getting a £70,000 handout:
Scenario 1
There are two businessmen, person A and person B. Both own valuable business assets and consequently have a net worth running into several million of £'s, both produce a commodity product that can easily be bought elsewhere. Both run a loss-making business.
Only one is a farmer.
Who would you give the £70,000 subsidy to, person A or person B and why (or, more pertinently, why not the other person)?
Scenario 2
There are two people, person C and person D.
One is a farmer of 1,000 acres who inherited all his land and machinery and has since run his business conservatively. He had a net worth running into the millions of £'s. The other is a farm worker. He lives in a tied cottage, and owns very little other than a cheap car.
Both person C and person D work the same hours on average through the course of the year.
Which one deserves a £70,000 handout, and why?
Scenario 1
There are two businessmen, person A and person B. Both own valuable business assets and consequently have a net worth running into several million of £'s, both produce a commodity product that can easily be bought elsewhere. Both run a loss-making business.
Only one is a farmer.
Who would you give the £70,000 subsidy to, person A or person B and why (or, more pertinently, why not the other person)?
Scenario 2
There are two people, person C and person D.
One is a farmer of 1,000 acres who inherited all his land and machinery and has since run his business conservatively. He had a net worth running into the millions of £'s. The other is a farm worker. He lives in a tied cottage, and owns very little other than a cheap car.
Both person C and person D work the same hours on average through the course of the year.
Which one deserves a £70,000 handout, and why?
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
You are not going to get through. Its very deeply ingrained in some. Its not surprising, if you're a 3rd or 4th generation farmer chances are all you have ever known is subsidy and the mantra 'Farming special, food important, must be subsidised!'. All the hundreds of thousands, probably millions of miners, steel workers, fishermen, ship builders, railwaymen, factory workers etc etc that have thought the same over the last 70 years and discovered they weren't irreplaceable have just passed you by. The fact that less than 1% of the population is involved in farming and over 99% aren't doesn't matter to you - the 1% tail should wag the 99% dog.
To be honest it doesn't matter now - subs are going whether farmers like it or not, Brexit has made sure of that. So at a guess everyone has approximately 4-5 years to formulate and implement a plan for how they will manage without them - if they don't chances are they'll be toast pretty soon after.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
I agree with you.
Hilly
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders.
I dont think subs will go, the government likes food security more than we think and the budget for subs is so small it will be neither here nor there to them.
I agree, well while the EU get them anyway
They may well be cut though and more difficult to get
but I am willing to bet there will be some sort of subs available to farmers post 2020
but you don't have to worry young jimmy will post your cheque personal care of the EU
Anonymous...
Member
Young jimmy lol lol
Fandabbydozy
Fandabbydozy
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
miners and steelworkers are gone now do we really want to see the family farms go the same way and have 50 odd million people relying on food being imported so they can get their 3 meals a day? it would be so easy for terrorists/disease threats/war to cut off our food supply FOOD SECURITY is why we must respect that farming IS different to that of steel workers etc because it is vitally important!
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
Scenario 1
If the farmer is from the UK and the EU are still getting their subsidies then we should back our own farmers and give them the same as he will be competing without subs in a subsidy driven environment which is a bit like pushing water up a hill!!
Scenario 2
The farmer deserves the £70k because his competition is also receiving it and in a bad year some of that £70k may be needed to pay the worker, the worker has a cottage and is not responsible for the upkeep of the cottage/farm/reinvesting in buildings/infrastructure and machinery and is not competing in a subsidy driven environment he simply takes his wage and also doesn't have all his money tied up in the business
- Location
- North Wales
But there will still be food produced in the UK and probably just as much as is now. So there won't be any worry of imports. It may just be produced by different people with different systems.
U seem to worry that prices will stay the same, costs will increase and there won't be sub to expand.
Bossfarmer
Member
- Location
- between Perth and Inverness
No there will be much much less sheep/cattle, markets/abbotoirs will close as a result and it will just be a kind of niche product which unfortunately wont feed a nation, the most productive land will continue but as far as livestock and putting meat on supermarket shelves a far far higher % will be imported if subs go
- Location
- North Wales
I disagree with this, there will be just the same amount produced even on the hills. But where I do agree is that the number of family farms will be reduced as farms amalagmate to create viable units. Some of the displaced farmers will even find employment as shepherds and stockmen on the larger units and will remain within the industry.
I don't think even bigger units will have the money to pay stockmen if subs go and the gov let any old rubbish in
there comes a point when the bigger boys just lose more
- Location
- North Wales
I also believe there will be a continued support payment. The government has said they intend to support as they like the control over farmers and the environment.
But I would be surprised if the payment wasn't substantially reduced and fully redirected towards the environment. If it was a 100% environmental payment farmers would still link it to food production in their heads.
But I would be surprised if the payment wasn't substantially reduced and fully redirected towards the environment. If it was a 100% environmental payment farmers would still link it to food production in their heads.
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- Location
- North Wales
This maybe true if everything stays static but in reality prices and costs will change too to reflect the market. It will be farmers business mentality that will hold back the changes.
It is nart to do with food production now
I have never linked SFP or BPS with food production because there is no link other than its paid to folk that produce food
in fact the old IACS and headage payments were not really production related
Baling Hay
Member
So what about a new entrant who doesn't get any subsides unless they go out and buy entitlements whilst the established guys were given them? The new entrant is already at an automatic disadvantage.