Free range eggs. What?

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
https://www.farminguk.com/News/Free...-supermarket-shelves-around-Europe_45370.html

Aside from all the politics in this story and the hope that DEFRA will put the industry before common sense and continue to persecute the backyard keeper......I'm struggling with the maths. Chicken maths is notoriously complicated and a whole different discipline to normal maths, mainly as they keep moving around. But anyway.

Story states that free range producers are losing £4.08 per bird. They state income of 88p per doz. So I'm trying to work this out.

My half breed mungrels will easily do 280-300 eggs in their first year. They cost me near on £5 to raise to laying. I have done the numbers on this several times. This is with feed at around £6 per bag (20kg) which I'm sure is more than the big boys pay, probably way more. The brown hen the big boys use will also eat less and lay more eggs than my mungrels. That's a given. Let's say 320 eggs in year 1.

So, my maths.

Hatch 2 eggs. Sex linked so one is brown, one is white. Mince the white one (boy). Raise the brown one to point of lay. Use my figure of £5 for feed. I suspect the industry does it closer to £3. Then it starts laying.

320 eggs later at a price of 88p per dozen is around £23.50 of income. Maybe say £22 if you take a bit of mortality etc. into it. This bird will eat (my mungrels) about 40kg of feed in this time. So say £12 in feed (high street prices).

So each hen earns £22 less £5 to raise and £12 to feed = £5 gross profit. I'm sure these figures are way out in terms of feed cost alone. But in a 16,000 bird unit, that's a gross of £80k including feed.

How does each hen lose the producer £4.08? Labour? Water? Debt?
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
how can people still be selling free range eggs when all chickens be locked indoors?
Certain number of days housed is allowed. Runs out on Feb 28th I think. I could be wrong. That's ironic as it's the day that DEFRA says we must keep hens banged up until. Of course, there is no suggestion that they set this date so that 'the industry' couldn't then sell their eggs as free range. Too much money at stake. Meanwhile, the little guy gets tagged as reckless as usual.
 

wdah/him

Member
Location
tyrone
cost of house and the equipment that is now needed and paperwork so that they are fully traceable, but even i doubt that they should be making a loss, certainly not 80000 profit a year
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
cost of house and the equipment that is now needed and paperwork so that they are fully traceable, but even i doubt that they should be making a loss, certainly not 80000 profit a year
80k is my rough gross with none of what you mention included. I just can't see how you would get to a £65k loss on a 16,000 unit as the article seems to suggest.
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
cost of house and the equipment that is now needed and paperwork so that they are fully traceable, but even i doubt that they should be making a loss, certainly not 80000 profit a year
cant understand this as round here there are several free range houses going up and talking about 8 to 10 quid a bird profit.
A well run 16000 bird house could get you 160k_170k a flock and that's after the meal and birds are all paid for ,the only money to come out of the 170k would be you bank payments,electricity, water, ,so don't fell sorry for them .
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Set up costs are £30per bird
Half a million quid borrowed? Absolutely nuts. Surely when you borrow that half a million there is a contract in place for the time you will need to pay it off?

Oops.

Right, factor in half a million quid of debt on the bakruptcy shed at 3%. About 15k a year in interest alone. So less than £1 per hen. £5 to buy the hen. £1 to pay the interest on the shed. £12 in feed. Total £18. Income per bird still £22. So, £4 over 16,000 is £64k profit. Less staff of course. Less water and electric. I still don't see how they have come to a loss of £4.08 per bird without some seriously dodgy accounting. It just doesn't add up to me. Would like someone to justify it.

This story has one purpose. To pressurise DEFRA into lifting the restrictions earlier than they maybe should. They probably will as well.
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
Half a million quid borrowed? Absolutely nuts. Surely when you borrow that half a million there is a contract in place for the time you will need to pay it off?

Oops.

Right, factor in half a million quid of debt on the bakruptcy shed at 3%. About 15k a year in interest alone. So less than £1 per hen. £5 to buy the hen. £1 to pay the interest on the shed. £12 in feed. Total £18. Income per bird still £22. So, £4 over 16,000 is £64k profit. Less staff of course. Less water and electric. I still don't see how they have come to a loss of £4.08 per bird without some seriously dodgy accounting. It just doesn't add up to me. Would like someone to justify it.

This story has one purpose. To pressurise DEFRA into lifting the restrictions earlier than they maybe should. They probably will as well.
Maybe they are not allowed to sell there eggs as free range ,, as hens are locked up ,, probably getting cage egg prices ,but with bigger over heads
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
Maybe they are not allowed to sell there eggs as free range ,, as hens are locked up ,, probably getting cage egg prices ,but with bigger over heads
That's the point. I think from the original lockdown on Dec 6th, Feb 28th is conveniently the day when they can all be let out and still be Free Range. The 'industry' seems to be putting pressure on DEFRA to make this so, regardless of the actual status and caring nothing for the plight and expense of us 'back yard' peasants. Or am I just a bit too cynical? I bet the 'industry' wins.

So, the 'industry', crapping themselves over this have encouraged DEFRA to force a billion hens into small dark sheds, regardless of welfare concerns because they are sh!t scared that this bug might find it's way into their 2 million hen unit, but they want all that lifted on Feb 28 so they don't lose a penny on egg price as they already spent half a million per dark shed and have come up with some dodgy accounting and a fake sob story about losing £4 a hen.

If you are losing £4 a hen then do something else FFS. Being an unemployed bowling green attendant would be much less stress and pay you way more.
 

Daniel

Member
That's the point. I think from the original lockdown on Dec 6th, Feb 28th is conveniently the day when they can all be let out and still be Free Range. The 'industry' seems to be putting pressure on DEFRA to make this so, regardless of the actual status and caring nothing for the plight and expense of us 'back yard' peasants. Or am I just a bit too cynical? I bet the 'industry' wins.

So, the 'industry', crapping themselves over this have encouraged DEFRA to force a billion hens into small dark sheds, regardless of welfare concerns because they are sh!t scared that this bug might find it's way into their 2 million hen unit, but they want all that lifted on Feb 28 so they don't lose a penny on egg price as they already spent half a million per dark shed and have come up with some dodgy accounting and a fake sob story about losing £4 a hen.

If you are losing £4 a hen then do something else FFS. Being an unemployed bowling green attendant would be much less stress and pay you way more.

I think the theory is that migratory birds will have finished migrating by the 1st of March and so the risk to letting the birds out will have diminished.

If Defra can't let the birds out on March 1st due to health fears then they will have to announce a derogation to continue labelling the eggs as free range in my view. Where is the labelling and packaging going to come from to label millions of boxes of eggs as what? Barn? Cage Free? What will the pricing structure be? I'm unaware of any contingency for this so hopefully common sense will prevail.
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
I think the theory is that migratory birds will have finished migrating by the 1st of March and so the risk to letting the birds out will have diminished.

If Defra can't let the birds out on March 1st due to health fears then they will have to announce a derogation to continue labelling the eggs as free range in my view. Where is the labelling and packaging going to come from to label millions of boxes of eggs as what? Barn? Cage Free? What will the pricing structure be? I'm unaware of any contingency for this so hopefully common sense will prevail.
Common sense being just say they are free range?
 

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