SilliamWhale
Member
Always thought it was clever that the Claydon family changed their surname to promote the Drill...
BASF real results - Wheat growers wanted
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Well that is just plainly untrue, what else was your picture doing in FW if not personally endorsing a product?
My opinion on the matter is that Clive's original data is unsullied, and what happens after that with BASF wanting to use it doesn't alter the fact. However, from now onwards, any data produced by Clive in new trials has to be viewed in light of his attachment to BASF.
It's the same reason I am not running further drill trials with a 750a against a CS. I feel I was objective before I owned either one, but now that is not the case, I could not claim the same again.
That's a fair point. I suppose it now comes down to your expectation of his character.
Never met him, but I consider him an honest person. Therefore I would accept his results as he states them if he was to document another trial this year, knowing full well that he received a payment after his trial last year. Then I would come to my own conclusions after that.
Never met him, but I consider him an honest person. Therefore I would accept his results as he states them if he was to document another trial this year, knowing full well that he received a payment after his trial last year. Then I would come to my own conclusions after that.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I agree in that I think the original trial was unproblematic, unless there was an expectation of payment. My concern is much more broad than that, and that is the changing of the atmosphere of the threads here. Fine we have adverts down the side -- I absolutely agree with that -- because of course Clive and others should make a (lot, IMO) of money for having the good business sense to set this place up. It's a huge achievement and I don't think many people could have made as good a job as Clive and the rest of his team. I take my hat off to him for this success.
This thread though is different from Clive's original trial. If it didn't start mainly because of likely / possible / probably financial gains from the promotion of this trial, then it is at least the risk of that happening from here on is higher. As I said before, it seems to be more of an advertorial.
Turning to @Clive, firstly Happy Birthday!
To address your post at the same time, you spend most of the time basically explaining all things about TFF that I value. But you seem to miss my point though, which is this thread is an example of how you seem to be drifting away from actually posting just as an ordinary poster, whether you realise that yourself or not.
In answer to the question about whether I would have bought a 750a without this forum. No, I very probably wouldn't. It's possible I wouldn't even have thought seriously about zero till or a whole raft of other things. That's the whole point! Take the 750a for example, and if I may single out Simon Chiles. He is an example of the good spirited nature of discussion and advice on here. In what other industry would some other person in the same industry go seriously out of their way to help you for no gain to themselves, at least in my judgement? Example, I had a question about establishing grass seed and Simon very kindly rang me up to give advice for a good 40 minutes. That sort of thing doesn't happen very often, and really doesn't happen in other industries. That is the value that TFF brings, and I suppose I cherish that enough to possibly over-react when that value starts to be eroded.
Take Facebook as example, from its very early origins to what it is now. Before it was pure and unfettered communication between social networks of people. Now look at it. Scroll down your newsfeed and you are bombarded with sponsored and suggested content with information presented in a very filtered way. It's basically close to worthless now and very far away from its original roots. It's not a surprise, obviously the whole thing was set up to generate money from the start and as the revenue generation mechanisms kick in more and more.
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Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I pretty much agree with this. Along with Simon and a lot of others, Clive has given a huge amount of very valuable advice over the years from a position of great experience. Crikey, he very kindly showed David and I around his farm and gave us his time for nothing. But in a weird way that's also my point. If I have to start to weed out what bit of what he says is possibly compromised then that will be a great shame.
to be clear - I am not "attached to BASF" just as Im not to Fent, JD, Claas, Batemen or any other product I use in my farming business
Syngenta, Bayer and other ag them co's all pay TFF for adverts, it makes this place possible and does now finally provide a modest profit for me and others involved for the many hours we put in to keep it all working - most companies actually pay more than BASF ! none of them get any preferential treatment
Next year if Bayers or Syngenta's new fungicide beats BASF's on my farm I will be posting about it !
Did JD pay you to trial the CS vs 750a and Horsch and blog about it on here and twitter ? ........of course they didn't and what I did sharing my trail with others was no different iMO
If JD now came along and offered to pay you for an article or take a picture of it now would you tell them to keep their cash ? If you took the cash for a picture would it change the result you got ??
in fact it's interesting that when I ran a drill trail a few years ago on TFF no one ever had these conversations ? people simply read it and made there own minds up what they wanted todo with the info
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maybe the only solution is for me to stop posting on TFF and just focus on running it for others ? it is something I have often considered but frankly I don't want to because as a farmer I get a huge amount from participation in this place that helps me to farm better
If you look at this from my position what would you do ? I try to just talk as a farmer but the fact Im often now sitting in a room with all sorts of commercial people who want to pay TFF money for banner ads etc is unavoidable
This place was never supposed to be the success it has become, it was never even intended to become a commercial entity, that was not why I stared it but its truly massive growth has made it a necessity to have adverts etc here with the only alternative being to charge members, something I said from day one I would NEVER do
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
I've already said I don't think your trial was skewed, it's the work that came after it that may be. So in relation to my drill trial, I also said in my post that I now do not consider myself to be objective on the subject - or at the very least I do not expect other people to believe I am.
As far as your attachment to BASF vs your attachment to Fendt, Claas etc - I think only one of those has plastered your picture everywhere in their adverts, so it's pretty fair to say you have a commercial relationship with BASF above anything you have with a different company.
I'm certainly not saying, or believing, that you have ever been dishonest or anything like that...but like it or not, you have nailed your colours to the mast on one side!
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Happy birthday by the way, you don't look a day over 55.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
No-one is saying the original trial was compromised (unless, as I said, you knew you were likely to be paid for something related to it), although I still maintain from the POV of experimental methodology that it was of limited use by itself (but take the point about this new approach of aggregating data). But now you have been paid, and can reasonably expect now, given your position, to be paid for doing similar things in the future, it may affect what you do. To echo David, I also believe you try (and generally succeed) to be objective. My point though is that these compromising effects are very subtle and and happen often unconsciously. If you want a somewhat controversial and far out -- but quite persuasive, IMO -- account of how these sorts of things work, read the first few chapters of Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Also, because I've rather diverted this thread, I'll say that we have consistently used Adexar at T2 since close to its launch because we believe that it does come out looking good from the overall trials work and continues to do so in the face of the new products being launched this year.
And, no, I was not paid to say that, although I do have suspicions that my BASF cap my be messing with my mind, especially when I wear it sideways in the hood.
And, no, I was not paid to say that, although I do have suspicions that my BASF cap my be messing with my mind, especially when I wear it sideways in the hood.
Daniel
Member
- Location
- Mildenhall, Suffolk
If any chemical companies are watching, I'm happy to say whatever you like about your chemicals in return for wads of cash.
I have a snowboarding trip to pay for...
I have a snowboarding trip to pay for...
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Perhaps you should try and get sponsored by Salomon? I've not yet seen anyone on the Dew Tour sponsored by BASF, but you could be the first.
Daniel
Member
- Location
- Mildenhall, Suffolk
Anyone who's seen my skill levels wouldn't want to sponsor me the price of a slope side burger and chips I'm afraid!
We even have a conference about it!
https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/national-events/events/septoria-conference-.php
https://www.teagasc.ie/news--events/national-events/events/septoria-conference-.php
SilliamWhale
Member
Good pee up as well?
No it's our farm advisory service Teagasc not BASF
CORK
Member
- Location
- East Cork, Ireland
I'm planning to attend that conference and definitely a case of a team building night away. Knowing my luck it'll be dry weather and ill be in the fields.....