Owen Paterson nails his colours to the mast

Steevo · Apr 22, 2017

db9go said:
I have said it before there are a lot of people that have large amounts of ready cash and nowhere to invest and do not worry about subs, The land agents worry about subs more

...and inheritance tax!

Plenty round here with no interest in farming have bought farms either to live as a nice country house, or as land as an investment that they let others farm. If you have more money than you need to sustain your current lifestyle but are happy....land is the most logical option.

lazy farmer · Apr 22, 2017

gone up the hill said:
Stewardship schemes are just unworkable for livestock farms, iv looked at the book for the 2017 schemes, totally unworkable, made complicated for the sake of it, drowning in red tape, only way you could enter these schemes on a farm is if you are looking to retire/ do something else off the farm but want to keep a few beef cattle/ sheep as a hobby, I read thru the books and then chucked them in the bin as that is the best place for those schemes, they may work on very large arable farms but that's about it, for average size livestock/ mixed farms they are just too complicated.

Why the hell the NFU think this is the way forward for subs is beyond me!!

Ref the beef, if these imports are allowed in then all the costly crap we have like RT/ farm assurance/ NVZ rules etc etc will have to be thrown in the bin as well as we will have to cut production costs by 20/30% at least, also we will have to be allowed to use the same production methods as these country's that will be able to import into the UK including Growth promoters..

Personally I cant see farm input prices dropping at all even if subs go, and actually at the moment things like farm meds are going up in price by quite a large %, either they are doing that to drop them if subs go or this is the price the suppliers need to cover costs and make a profit on these meds!

Most concerning is the total lack of a Brexit policy from the farming unions, groups like the NT etc worked their policy's out months ago and have been lobbying MP's with them for weeks now whilst the farming unions seem asleep on the job with one union saying that they wont have a Brexit policy until late summer which will be far too late and the damage will already be done!

As sure as sun comes up GUTH remains upbeat

yellow belly · Apr 22, 2017

Steevo said:
...and inheritance tax!

Plenty round here with no interest in farming have bought farms either to live as a nice country house, or as land as an investment that they let others farm. If you have more money than you need to sustain your current lifestyle but are happy....land is the most logical option.

Then if they let it at a low rent farmers can farm it as they did before 1948 when peace time subsidy system was introduced by a former Nfu member who was minister of agriculture

gone up the hill · Apr 22, 2017

lazy farmer said:
As sure as sun comes up GUTH remains upbeat

I am upbeat but that is the reality of the situation sadly.

Only sector that might gain from subs going is the dairy sector and even if direct payments go if the milk price goes bang you can be sure you will get a direct hand out from the Gov but no other sectors will get this if their prices go bang that is very clear.

joe soapy · Apr 22, 2017

I know its counter intuitive but, the high land price actually allows more people to farm, think back to the 1930's ,land was very cheap and interest rates low,
many of the largeest farms today were actually put together at that time. today's land prices tend to stop that happening now

Hampton · Apr 22, 2017

Just trying to find my post from a few years ago where I declared that history would show Owen Patterson to be the worst thing to happen to British agriculture in recent years despite jack Cunningham and Margaret Beckett as the competition!

Wellytrack · Apr 22, 2017

Hampton said:
Just trying to find my post from a few years ago where I declared that history would show Owen Patterson to be the worst thing to happen to British agriculture in recent years despite jack Cunningham and Margaret Beckett as the competition!

Nick Brown wasn't the worst. Then there was Gummer. Who remembers this?

caveman · Apr 22, 2017

Henarar said:
can we have the same regulation as south America

No.
Cos China would then buy S.A. cos it is cheaper and another bidder would be lost for our product.

glasshouse · Apr 22, 2017

joe soapy said:
I know its counter intuitive but, the high land price actually allows more people to farm, think back to the 1930's ,land was very cheap and interest rates low,
many of the largeest farms today were actually put together at that time. today's land prices tend to stop that happening now

What rubbish.
High land prices have attracted non farmers to buy land who then contract farm/rape it. Actual farmers are not required in this model.
The owners dont have a clue what is going on, but the agents fatten well on it.

glasshouse · Apr 22, 2017

Wellytrack said:
Nick Brown wasn't the worst. Then there was Gummer. Who remembers this?

View attachment 505214

Gummer was ok, he did his best to defend beef farmers from bse.
His mistake was giving his daughter a piping hot burger which she gagged on.

Wellytrack · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Gummer was ok, he did his best to defend beef farmers from bse.
His mistake was giving his daughter a piping hot burger which she gagged on.

I remember the fuss, and TBH although I was young, thought the backlash was over the top, he made an effort, albeit a misguided one to shore up some confidence in an industry that with hindsight was in shock.

Everyone thinks beef with that burger fiasco, but it was that wretched Friesian cow stumbling round a collecting yard that was on repeat.

Yale · Apr 23, 2017

jendan said:
Why do you assume that every farmer needs his subsidy to stay in business.It depends on what the subsidy % of his gross output/profit is.I farm 600 acres,but only claim for 170 acres.Far more damaging to me if fat lambs/hoggs are £40 to £60 instead of £70 to £90/head.

Yes,I agree.

It is the farmgate price which is way more important than subsidies as this is real income.

Maybe I should vote for the Jeremy Corbyn lot and watch the country go down the pan whilst us farmers reap the benefits of the collapsing pound.

joe soapy · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
What rubbish.
High land prices have attracted non farmers to buy land who then contract farm/rape it. Actual farmers are not required in this model.
The owners dont have a clue what is going on, but the agents fatten well on it.

Maybe, but even the wealthy have a finite amount of available cash, if you half the price of land they would buy twice as much

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Yale said:
Yes,I agree.

It is the farmgate price which is way more important than subsidies as this is real income.

Maybe I should vote for the Jeremy Corbyn lot and watch the country go down the pan whilst us farmers reap the benefits of the collapsing pound.

Corbyn could hardly do worse than the past two incumbents.
Farmers always do better under a true labour govt, as opposed to landowners who do better under tories or blairite torylabour.

Henarar · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Corbyn could hardly do worse than the past two incumbents.
Farmers always do better under a true labour govt, as opposed to landowners who do better under tories or blairite torylabour.

lots of farmers are also owners of land which is best for them ?

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Depends what coloured trousers you wear.
Calf scour yellow cords or black oily denim?

Henarar · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Depends what coloured trousers you wear.
Calf scour yellow cords or black oily denim?

Green Dickies reapers

hate jeans most don't seem to cover half the wearers arse these days which is fine if they are female

Goweresque · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Corbyn could hardly do worse than the past two incumbents.
Farmers always do better under a true labour govt, as opposed to landowners who do better under tories or blairite torylabour.

How can landowners do better if farmers (ie tenants) do worse? The rent can only be paid from the farming profits/subsidies available. Surely if farming as a sector is doing well, rents will reflect that and the landowner will do well too? Look what happened when wheat went to nearly £200/tonne, arable rents went through the roof.

Generally speaking Labour Governments have had lower sterling thus meaning better farmgate prices and higher subsidies, as they have (certainly since we joined the EEC) been linked to foreign currencies. Farming has always been countercyclical in that way, when the economy as a whole does well, sterling rises, farming does poorly, and vice versa.

Adeptandy · Apr 23, 2017

Goweresque said:
How can landowners do better if farmers (ie tenants) do worse? The rent can only be paid from the farming profits/subsidies available. Surely if farming as a sector is doing well, rents will reflect that and the landowner will do well too? Look what happened when wheat went to nearly £200/tonne, arable rents went through the roof.

Generally speaking Labour Governments have had lower sterling thus meaning better farmgate prices and higher subsidies, as they have (certainly since we joined the EEC) been linked to foreign currencies. Farming has always been countercyclical in that way, when the economy as a whole does well, sterling rises, farming does poorly, and vice versa.

Just a pity the rents arn't coming down now the price of wheat has dropped [emoji52]

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Goweresque said:
How can landowners do better if farmers (ie tenants) do worse? The rent can only be paid from the farming profits/subsidies available. Surely if farming as a sector is doing well, rents will reflect that and the landowner will do well too? Look what happened when wheat went to nearly £200/tonne, arable rents went through the roof.

Generally speaking Labour Governments have had lower sterling thus meaning better farmgate prices and higher subsidies, as they have (certainly since we joined the EEC) been linked to foreign currencies. Farming has always been countercyclical in that way, when the economy as a whole does well, sterling rises, farming does poorly, and vice versa.

"How do landowners do better if tenants do worse"?
You are kidding arent you?

Owen Paterson nails his colours to the mast

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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