Owen Paterson nails his colours to the mast

Goweresque · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
"How do landowners do better if tenants do worse"?
You are kidding arent you?

No. What I mean is, there's only a finite amount of money to be made from farming, from actual crops and livestock, and/or from subsidies. This gets split between the landlord and the tenant. If farming is doing 'well' there's more money in the pot for both parties. So I fail to see how if a Labour government is 'good for farmers' that it isn't also good for landowners.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Goweresque said:
No. What I mean is, there's only a finite amount of money to be made from farming, from actual crops and livestock, and/or from subsidies. This gets split between the landlord and the tenant. If farming is doing 'well' there's more money in the pot for both parties. So I fail to see how if a Labour government is 'good for farmers' that it isn't also good for landowners.

You are rather naive about landlord tenant relationships if you think the income gets split fairly.
The tory govt of 1995 brought in the farm business tenancy to supersede the AHA system introduced by labour in 1949.
The objective was to remove the tenants bargaining power over rent, the same as short assured tenancies did in 1988.
A tenant on a short lease, typically 4 yrs on fbt has a choice, pay the rent demanded or walk.
That is why rents have spiralled for land and cottages, benefitting landowners while screwing tenants.
Corbyn would change that situation if he won hopefully.

caveman · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
You are rather naive about landlord tenant relationships if you think the income gets split fairly.
The tory govt of 1995 brought in the farm business tenancy to supersede the AHA system introduced by labour in 1949.
The objective was to remove the tenants bargaining power over rent, the same as short assured tenancies did in 1988.
A tenant on a short lease, typically 4 yrs on fbt has a choice, pay the rent demanded or walk.
That is why rents have spiralled for land and cottages, benefitting landowners while screwing tenants.
Corbyn would change that situation if he won hopefully.

Blame Yourself, your fellow farmer, wanna be farmer or the rent valuer.
The land owner just takes the best offer he's been made on his investment...... whether that be financial or any other criteria he has.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

caveman said:
Blame Yourself, your fellow farmer, wanna be farmer or the rent valuer.
The land owner just takes the best offer he's been made on his investment...... whether that be financial or any other criteria he has.

Thats what the tories are all about, maximum rent and to hell with the consequences.
Thats why land is now seen as a good investment by outsiders, which labour put a stop to in 1949, only to be undone by thatcher.

Hilly · Apr 23, 2017

Wellytrack said:
Nick Brown wasn't the worst. Then there was Gummer. Who remembers this?

View attachment 505214

Oh god how could anyone forget, i remeber looking at my cattle and thinking i have 50k`s worth to sell nxt month, then that fiasco, my 50k turned to 20k over night, im not a bitter person but if i was ever to be bitter it would be over BSE.

Hilly · Apr 23, 2017

I see cattle prices today that dont even resemble what we were getting in the dark years of BSE, the robbing bastatrds we fed the people for fuk all because of BSE, we were treat shamefully bad and still paying the price.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Hilly said:
I see cattle prices today that dont even resemble what we were getting in the dark years of BSE, the robbing bastatrds we fed the people for fuk all because of BSE, we were treat shamefully bad and still paying the price.

Yes, BSE finished many farmers, and now we are saddled with effing passports because of it.

Goweresque · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
You are rather naive about landlord tenant relationships if you think the income gets split fairly.
The tory govt of 1995 brought in the farm business tenancy to supersede the AHA system introduced by labour in 1949.
The objective was to remove the tenants bargaining power over rent, the same as short assured tenancies did in 1988.
A tenant on a short lease, typically 4 yrs on fbt has a choice, pay the rent demanded or walk.
That is why rents have spiralled for land and cottages, benefitting landowners while screwing tenants.
Corbyn would change that situation if he won hopefully.

I never said the pot got split fairly! I just said that if the pot gets bigger, its got to be good for both parties, surely? Put it this way, do you think landlords would prefer wheat to be £100 or £200 per tonne?

caveman · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Thats what the tories are all about, maximum rent and to hell with the consequences.
Thats why land is now seen as a good investment by outsiders, which labour put a stop to in 1949, only to be undone by thatcher.

The remedy is quite simple.
Buy your own land.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Heres the evidence from farmers guardian today

Baker9 · Apr 23, 2017

Henarar said:
Green Dickies reapers
hate jeans most don't seem to cover half the wearers arse these days which is fine if they are female

looking at some of the females I see lumbering about then the jeans really need to cover their behinds

.

gatepost · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
Gummer was ok, he did his best to defend beef farmers from bse.
His mistake was giving his daughter a piping hot burger which she gagged on.

His other mistake was to close Gloucester VI centre which happened to be involved in monitoring TB in the badger population, cost cutting burke comes to mind.

gatepost · Apr 23, 2017

Hilly said:
Oh god how could anyone forget, i remeber looking at my cattle and thinking i have 50k`s worth to sell nxt month, then that fiasco, my 50k turned to 20k over night, im not a bitter person but if i was ever to be bitter it would be over BSE.

Why did you have to remind me? just got my little suckler herd sorted and ticking over. and bang.

Hilly · Apr 23, 2017

gatepost said:
Why did you have to remind me? just got my little suckler herd sorted and ticking over. and bang.

Id only had a few years at as well, all them years selling good cattle for £1kg if you were lucky, robbed we was.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

gatepost said:
Why did you have to remind me? just got my little suckler herd sorted and ticking over. and bang.

All the arable profits from 95 and 96 went on buying bulling heifers rather than a shiny lexion.. Bse fecked that.

Brisel · Apr 23, 2017

glasshouse said:
You are rather naive about landlord tenant relationships if you think the income gets split fairly.
The tory govt of 1995 brought in the farm business tenancy to supersede the AHA system introduced by labour in 1949.
The objective was to remove the tenants bargaining power over rent, the same as short assured tenancies did in 1988.
A tenant on a short lease, typically 4 yrs on fbt has a choice, pay the rent demanded or walk.
That is why rents have spiralled for land and cottages, benefitting landowners while screwing tenants.
Corbyn would change that situation if he won hopefully.

Ah, yes. So much land was available to rent pre 1995. The amount of land coming up for tender was virtually nothing. Ok, FBTs are heading that way too but there are many more of these changing hands now than before.

Supply and demand sets rent levels. If farmers told the agents to get lost then no one would rent it. Then rents would have to fall to a level where bids started coming back. Tenants play the game by bidding high rents and suffer for it. This creates the comparables agents use to talk the rents up.

If Patterson's vision comes true there will be a lot less rent paid out or there will be mass land abandonment.

glasshouse · Apr 23, 2017

Brisel said:
Ah, yes. So much land was available to rent pre 1995. The amount of land coming up for tender was virtually nothing. Ok, FBTs are heading that way too but there are many more of these changing hands now than before.

Supply and demand sets rent levels. If farmers told the agents to get lost then no one would rent it. Then rents would have to fall to a level where bids started coming back. Tenants play the game by bidding high rents and suffer for it. This creates the comparables agents use to talk the rents up.

If Patterson's vision comes true there will be a lot less rent paid out or there will be mass land abandonment.

Yet again you miss the point.
FBT s were introduced not to get extra land let, as the agents claimed, but to get a few ridiculous comparables to use to jack the rents on AHA holdings even though that was against the law.
Farmers cannot tell the agent to get lost as it is often their home as well, so they are FORCED to pay a rent which will lose them money which is nevertheless preferable to losing your home and livelihood. The labour govt of 1949 knew all this, thats why they brought in AHA TENANCIES WITH SECURITY AND STRICT RENT CONTROL.
We have now had tory or toryesque govt since 1979, 38yrs of right wing propertycentric control which has left the country bankrupt and young people priced out of owning a home for good.

Brisel · Apr 24, 2017

I thought that would get a rise out of you! Farmers CAN tell agents to get lost - they just have to be prepared to walk away. Bidders and tenants play their game so that's why they win. You fail to grap basic economics, whilst expecting the state to keep you on the land. I can't believe you still trust the government to act on your behalf given their track record of badly thought out and badly worded legislation :scratchhead:

The government is only interested in being re elected, not looking after your interests. At the moment, farming doesn't matter as food can and is being imported. When the voters have empty stomachs then they will act, but not until then.

JP1 · Apr 24, 2017

Brisel said:
I thought that would get a rise out of you! Farmers CAN tell agents to get lost - they just have to be prepared to walk away. People like you play their game so that's why they win. You fail to grap basic economics, whilst expecting the state to keep you on the land. I can't believe you still trust the government to act on your behalf given their track record of badly thought out and badly worded legislation

The government is only interested in being re elected, not looking after your interests. At the moment, farming doesn't matter as food can and is being imported. When the voters have empty stomachs then they will act, but not until then.

Bit insensitive that post IMO

glasshouse · Apr 24, 2017

JP1 said:
Bit insensitive that post IMO

And factually bollox too.
Tenant farmers have a far better grasp of economics than mollycoddled farm managers who keep missing the point.

Owen Paterson nails his colours to the mast

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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