Arla

Sid

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
runny egg said:
Yes no point in bringing out a new choice if it stagnates total demand or trades consumers down. Anyone who has read my previous thoughts will know i stated very clearly that FR could deliver a net industry benefit if promoted and delivered in a responsible way, I also highlighted the challenge to "organic" to maintain their market and not lose them. But instead of our great industry learning from our colleagues in pork, chicken and eggs, British dairy has got into an argument about who is more "free range" than the other, an argument that serves no (consumer) purpose other than to satisfy the desire (of producers) to kick the sh*t out of each other again.

When it comes to "standards" the fact there is no legal definition means you can all write your own standards or all use the term on your packaging, ND claims the moral high ground as he has developed stds and made his org the self certified industry leaders, whereas Arla simply did what everyone can do in the absence of a legal definition. TBH if any retailer came out with their own brand FR option, copied and pasted the PP standards (and derogations) but applied them to 185/190 or 200 days etc then where does this leave PP? After all PP stds allow a 14 day transition period either end of the season and the ability to house in times of extreme weather... therefore 180 days simply means (in layman terms) "cows must graze for 180 days/nights/yr unless ground conditions, weather conditions or welfare make this impossible" which is pretty much the unwritten rule all grazing based producers work to but without a stated 180 day target.

But I do question the way Arla have thought this through - what happens if they fail to win back consumers or stop the loss of consumers to FR? They (Arla) have played their FR card by tagging it on the organic bottles so where would they go next? Well I dont doubt for one minute that if this happened then you would see Arla bring out their own "FR" choice, but do they then drop FR from organic or have 2 FR options that confuses consumers over the difference between FR and FR organic? Arla will then be left having to either undermine one or the other, or perhaps they take a middle ground route and promote them both side by side on the merits of each - now theres a novel idea?? What if we have Great British Milk, Great British Free Range Milk and Great British Organic Milk.
BTW - Arla havent just labelled their organic milk as FR to kill off this valuable initiative the industry could benefit from, they have slashed the price as well.

And whilst the FR argument goes on we ignore the fact the FR is a "value" but there are many many more that appeal to consumers of milk and will absolutely trade consumers up.
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There is no argument over who is more free range than another. The facts stated that organic passes the minimum "free range " standard and more plus it delivers on other points that are a legal set definitions within Europe.


Free range has set out its stall against housed units, you can deny it all you like but thats your USP.

Problem is its not a USP because its not unique, Organics doesn't have one USP and thats its problem.

I applaud Arla for rebadging their organic milk as FR , well done.
 
F

Farmer1001

Member
Sid said:
There is no argument over who is more free range than another. The facts stated that organic passes the minimum "free range " standard and more plus it delivers on other points that are a legal set definitions within Europe.


Free range has set out its stall against housed units, you can deny it all you like but thats your USP.

Problem is its not a USP because its not unique, Organics doesn't have one USP and thats its problem.

I applaud Arla for rebadging their organic milk as FR , well done.
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Adam I can only assume you have had a bad morning and looking for a fight to get rid of some of that anger, perhaps you had grass fit to bale and then it rained. I really dont wish to go over old ground yet again so for the last time - I have never set FR against housed systems, I have only tried to show dairy that we can innovate by embracing consumers demands for choice, and rule number 1 in marketing is not to self promote by knocking another as it doesnt work. And the fact remains it makes no difference what producers think as its consumers who decide what they want and not for us to dictate, all we can do is the best job possible, promote all the good we do and and provide the choice for the consumer to decide. But again we (dairy) wont look and learn from other sectors or listen to consumers, we simply think we know best and plough on - at what point does the penny drop that volatility and poor returns means maybe we need to do things different from the past.
 
Sid

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
runny egg said:
bad morning and looking for a fight to get rid of some of that anger, perhaps you had grass fit to bale and then it rained. I really dont wish to go over old ground yet again so for the last time - I have never set FR against housed systems,
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No bad morning. No grass fit to bale. FR in its whole is up against housed herds thats your point of difference. Same as eggs. Thats a fact.

runny egg said:
marketing is not to self promote by knocking another as it doesnt work
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As you well know consumers think all cows grazed until FR came along, we as organic producers didn't push the FR part and when we do as i said its rattled a few cages including yours
runny egg said:
at what point does the penny drop that volatility and poor returns means maybe we need to do things different from the past.
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It won't. The majority of producers are price takers. The farmgate price goes up we need to produce more milk to cash in, the price goes down, we need to produce more milk to cover costs. Slowly there is a trickle of producers saying stuff it lets just stick with what we are doing instead of chasing their tails...or are their wings being clipped by someone outside of the business ie the banks saying enough is enough.
 
F

Farmer1001

Member
Sid said:
There is no argument over who is more free range than another. The facts stated that organic passes the minimum "free range " standard and more plus it delivers on other points that are a legal set definitions within Europe.
Free range has set out its stall against housed units, you can deny it all you like but thats your USP.
Problem is its not a USP because its not unique, Organics doesn't have one USP and thats its problem.
I applaud Arla for rebadging their organic milk as FR , well done.
Click to expand...

If organic is only promoting on its own merits and has so many USP's why the need to take a side swipe at every other production system with this type of organic promotion. I have never ever used such damaging, wide sweeping statements yet get a hammering by those who do. And as this is a an ARLA thread I will confirm this is NOT an Arla quote.

In (non-organic farming methods) cows can be kept confined, in sheds with no access to natural light or outdoor grazing. As organic farmers, we don’t produce milk like this. We like to see cows out in our fields eating fresh grass.
 
Sid

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
runny egg said:
If organic is only promoting on its own merits and has so many USP's why the need to take a side swipe at every other production system with this type of organic promotion. I have never ever used such damaging, wide sweeping statements yet get a hammering by those who do. And as this is a an ARLA thread I will confirm this is NOT an Arla quote.

In (non-organic farming methods) cows can be kept confined, in sheds with no access to natural light or outdoor grazing. As organic farmers, we don’t produce milk like this. We like to see cows out in our fields eating fresh grass.
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I know its terrible isn't it
Here's another quote for you
"It is now estimated that 20 percent of dairy cows in the UK are confined indoors all year round. "
Now there's a wide sweeping statement for you.
This is not an Arla quote either.
 
F

Farmer1001

Member
Sid said:
I know its terrible isn't it
Here's another quote for you
"It is now estimated that 20 percent of dairy cows in the UK are confined indoors all year round. "
Now there's a wide sweeping statement for you.
This is not an Arla quote either.
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Yes agree 100% both of the statements are inappropriate, damaging and not necessary, which is why I am delighted they have no connection to me or anything I stand for. I have absolutely no time for anyone who seeks to damage British dairy farming in this way.
 
Sid

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
F

Farmer1001

Member
Sid said:
Its linked to free range. You are for free range.
Same as i am an organic farmer and we are all tarred with the SA brush!
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FFS Sid, I have nothing to do with FRD and dont agree with a lot of their rhetoric, therefore dont take the lazy line and tar me with the same brush. On the other hand the following is promotional material not from the SA, OF&G, Yeo Valley or Arla but from your very own OMSCO! Have a gd evening Sid!

In (non-organic farming methods) cows can be kept confined, in sheds with no access to natural light or outdoor grazing. As organic farmers, we don’t produce milk like this. We like to see cows out in our fields eating fresh grass.
 
Sid

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
runny egg said:
FFS Sid, I have nothing to do with FRD and dont agree with a lot of their rhetoric, therefore dont take the lazy line and tar me with the same brush. On the other hand the following is promotional material not from the SA, OF&G, Yeo Valley or Arla but from your very own OMSCO! Have a gd evening Sid!

In (non-organic farming methods) cows can be kept confined, in sheds with no access to natural light or outdoor grazing. As organic farmers, we don’t produce milk like this. We like to see cows out in our fields eating fresh grass.
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You don't think i knew it was a snipe at OMSCo .
So you don't agree with FRD interesting that one a newly emerging line and already a division when you keep saying we should all work together!

What is says is non organic cows can be kept in in shed with no access to pasture. Not they are CAN be. Same as organic cows CAN be treated with antibiotics doesn't mean they are.

So i keep an eye out but have yet to see any milk of yours on the shelf or the launch you mentioned some 6 months ago or any meetings in the South West let alone the largest grass based dairy county in the UK.
I'd be interested (still) to hear about your plans with my NFU hat.
 
F

Farmer1001

Member
Sid said:
You don't think i knew it was a snipe at OMSCo .
So you don't agree with FRD interesting that one a newly emerging line and already a division when you keep saying we should all work together!

What is says is non organic cows can be kept in in shed with no access to pasture. Not they are CAN be. Same as organic cows CAN be treated with antibiotics doesn't mean they are.

So i keep an eye out but have yet to see any milk of yours on the shelf or the launch you mentioned some 6 months ago or any meetings in the South West let alone the largest grass based dairy county in the UK.
I'd be interested (still) to hear about your plans with my NFU hat.
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Complete bull Sid, you made the tarring with the same brush as you thought that statement was from SA, but because (you now learn) its your own CooP making such damning statements you try to distance yourself whilst making lame attempts to defend them, you then try to deviate onto another round of attacking me and our efforts to take the attention away from you. We have a wonderful industry with masses to be proud about, huge consumer support and opportunity for all British dairy farming systems, we also face some of the most uncertain times many will ever experience, yet some of our industry try to destroy it, ridicule other systems and criticise others opinions for nothing more than self satisfaction.

Stick to trolling others Sid or better still put your efforts into representing the dairy farmers from all systems you are tasked with representing as an NFU rep. Sorry @bar718 for allowing this to go off topic. It wont happen again. Out!
 
S

sidjon

Member
Location
EXMOOR
Cows 'n grass said:
Did you see we have our own forum on the new Arla website, I might be easier if we all just moved there...
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How do you like it? It has buggered it up for me as can't seem to get full website on phone now just a app version which is only half the info I need as are broadband is a feckING joke and have 4g on phone.
 
Cows 'n grass

Cows 'n grass

Member
Location
Modbury, South Devon
sidjon said:
How do you like it? It has buggered it up for me as can't seem to get full website on phone now just a app version which is only half the info I need as are broadband is a feckING joke and have 4g on phone.
Click to expand...

Exactly the same here, great 4g signal, diabolical broadband.

I'm the one one there with 2 business names asking where has the 'my price' tab has gone.
 

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