Cross Bred Tups - Any good?

Coximus · Aug 11, 2017

Im looking at what to tup a batch of ewes I was considering culling, but instead will keep for one last tupping *(all 3 crops) - cull reasons were mostly a mix of poorer growth rates (not bad but not my best) and scouring.
They're only being kept as I've been offered a bit of good sheltered winter keep at short notice which would suit them fine.

As such nothing will be retained from them - just fat lambs to slaughter.

I've been offered some Tex x Suf tups , both proven, one of which seems to have left some good lambs, the other seemed a bit more variable.
These Ewes have all been to the pure suff or hampshire the past 2 crops, but Id like to try something different.

Are theyir any major down sides?

Keepers · Aug 11, 2017

Have tried a couple of crossbred tups (sufftex and charollais x hampdown)
I would say Inconsistent/variable lambs from both of them

I guess it doesn't really matter if selling dead, but it matters a bit more when selling live.
I'm not keen on it when some lambs end up with daggy bums when throwing to one breed in the make up and not to the other

If I was to go for a crossbred type tup again, it would not be a mix of types such as down breed x continental (suftex) I would try something like a charolais x beltex or a mix between two whiter faced continental tups. In the hope that differences between lambs are not so black and white

Apart from that, knock yourself out

plenty of types out there to pick from

Ysgythan · Aug 11, 2017

Roy_H · Aug 11, 2017

I have had nothing to do with sheep but we had quite a lot of cattle. My late uncle had a pet saying "A good (Pedigree) bull is three quarters of a herd" when he died and his brother took over one of the first things he did was to "save money" by using a cross bred bull. He soon learnt!

Northeastfarmer · Aug 11, 2017

Cross bred tups...the best of both worlds, can't beat them

Victor · Aug 11, 2017

Have just bought a couple of char/beltex will wait and see

tinsheet · Aug 11, 2017

Char Tex here cracking lambs.

gatepost · Aug 11, 2017

Depends if the ewes are crossbred, if they are then heinz57, if pure then a cross will breed relatively true. remembering that just because a lamb looks similar such things as growth rate or fat and muscle depth may still vary.

andybk · Aug 11, 2017

the ram will be better than his offspring due to loosing much hybrid vigour , was talking to a customer yesterday same subject , he bought a tex x char few years back , he said a stonking ram , but offspring were very poor considering sire , would never do it again .

M-J-G · Aug 11, 2017

If you keep within a type, it seems to work fine.

I know two guys quite well who use x bred rams, one uses a Texel x Beltex onto Suf x Tex, Tex x Mule, Suf x Mule and Tex x Lleyn ewes.
The other uses Texel x Beltex and Char x Texel rams on Romney x Texel, Suf x Mules and Texel x Mules.
And both men's lambs are no more inconsistent than those off pure sires.

One guy says that you need to have two parents of a similar in type if you are to avoid inconsistency when breeding x bred sires. Similar to breeding pure ones really

gatepost · Aug 11, 2017

M-J-G said:
If you keep within a type, it seems to work fine.

I know two guys quite well who use x bred rams, one uses a Texel x Beltex onto Suf x Tex, Tex x Mule, Suf x Mule and Tex x Lleyn ewes.
The other uses Texel x Beltex and Char x Texel rams on Romney x Texel, Suf x Mules and Texel x Mules.
And both men's lambs are no more inconsistent than those off pure sires.

One guy says that you need to have two parents of a similar in type if you are to avoid inconsistency when breeding x bred sires. Similar to breeding pure ones really

Texel cross Beltex isn't really a cross bred genetically, just two different types within one breed, that's why the Texel society doesn't recognize Beltexs as a different breed and you can register one as a Texel.

andybk · Aug 11, 2017

gatepost said:
Texel cross Beltex isn't really a cross bred genetically, just two different types within one breed, that's why the Texel society doesn't recognize Beltexs as a different breed and you can register one as a Texel.

lol , a lot of the charollais are different grades of texel/beltex as well ,

CharcoalWally · Aug 11, 2017

What would anyone rather have? A cross bred tup who leaves good lambs or a pure one who doesn't?

Pure genetics are nothing special, every "pure " breed we have today was forged from a mix of differing genetics at one point. Lots of "pure " breeds of today have invested in a little fusion of other genetics in a bid to "improve " their breed and make it more marketable if their breed aficionados are to be believed.

I cross my cross bred ewes with a mixture of pure and cross bred tups. Those that have seen them invariably comment on how alike they are. As above, work to type and use parents that are alike.

Rules? What rules?

glensman · Aug 11, 2017

Ysgythan said:
No

what is your personal experience of using them that leads you to this conclusion?

Northeastfarmer · Aug 11, 2017

glensman said:
what is your personal experience of using them that leads you to this conclusion?

He sells pure tups...

M-J-G · Aug 11, 2017

Northeastfarmer said:
He sells pure tups...

I was once told that It's easy to get someone to believe something, when them making a living depends on them believing it!

Nithsdale · Aug 11, 2017

Personally, they will work better if you run pure ewes. Cross ewes your just bringing in genetics from 4 breeds (minimum) which can always lead to potential variation.

But that is just my personal opinion, I might well be wrong.

I used CharXBeltex for a few years and a SuffXTex (only 1, and only for 1 season - because he was an arse and fought with everything). I had varying degrees of cross ewes at that time - from Scotch and Chev Mules, 1st cross Lleyn through to 15/16ths...

The good were exceptional (especially the SufXTex lambs) but there were a % were not as good - I wouldn't say bad, just not as good...

If you like what you see, take a chance!

As said above, BeltexXTexel is not a cross IMO.

Ysgythan · Aug 11, 2017

glensman said:
what is your personal experience of using them that leads you to this conclusion?

According to my mother I don't need to experience putting my finger in the fire.

andybk · Aug 11, 2017

remember one local chap that used to do carcase comps , lots of rosettes always boasting he never spent much (200) on a ram and still had champions ,similar the heinz 57 ewes , what he didnt say was the crap that he put through mart as stores on a sat , similar to what @Nithsdale Farmer put above .
mind you done properly (logie etc ) will prob be better than many pures .

Coximus · Aug 11, 2017

Well I think im decided.
I've got my own accidental Suff X Tex tup lamb kicking about, as a pure accident - but He will be going over the lot.
Decided against buying one in as I agree with comments above about similar.

The ewes hes going over are a stabilised home bred cross of Hill x Texel x hill x easycare selected for consistent easy do-ing. The lambs will be better than my home bred maternals anyway, and are all destined for Killing so its an experiment and we shall see!

Cross Bred Tups - Any good?

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