Spreading Fert 36m

Brisel · May 8, 2014

Had another look at the price tracker.

I bought UK AN in mid October at £245/t or 71p/kg N. Urea on the same day was £263/t or 57 p/kg N. Price difference allowing for 10% losses from urea = 12.6 p/kg N

1000 ha at 220 kg/ha N = £27,720 per year savings assuming same price differential.

Capital cost differential is £110,000 for the Kuhn pneumatic - £14,000 for a mounted disc spreader = £96,000. 3.46 seasons to recoup the price difference between the two different spreaders assuming everything else is the same like repairs, daily output etc.

Discuss!

Not such a stupid concept after all, but I'm not changing my system just yet thanks.

Chae1 · May 8, 2014

Daily output wont be same with boom spreader if you have many poles in fields. Plus time folding up unfolding booms. Probably work in windier conditions though.

Brisel · May 8, 2014

There's a big debate to be had about that so I just assumed that it would roughly cancel out. The Aero has suspension & claims 20 kph working speed but I doubt that. I can't spray at that speed with a trailed sprayer, nor would I want to. Mounted spinning disc might though.

bert · May 8, 2014

Chae1 said:
Daily output wont be same with boom spreader if you have many poles in fields. Plus time folding up unfolding booms. Probably work in windier conditions though.

also urea doesn't like warm dry weather, so might only be able to take advantage of the low priced urea in earlier applications

Chippy Chappy · May 8, 2014

We have moved to 36m this season and spread AN to this width with no problems. We are using a decent granular product Yara Extra 33.5 which is very consistent and spreading this with a Kuhn Axis spreader with S8 discs. Have also spread MOP to 36m as well.
You do have to pick and choose your days a bit more when spreading at 36m compared to say 24m which we have found it works well for us.

Gilchro · May 8, 2014

On the work rate point, your Aero is a 6000 litre tank but you'll struggle to get a mounted much above 4000 so you can go 50% further between fills. Numbers might be a wee bit off but you'll get about 30ha a fill from the aero vs 20ha from mounted.
To cover your 1000ha, that's 33 loads vs 50 loads.......

And it's a lot kinder to axles rims and cross shafts

Robigus · May 8, 2014

Brisel said:
Had another look at the price tracker.

I bought UK AN in mid October at £245/t or 71p/kg N. Urea on the same day was £263/t or 57 p/kg N. Price difference allowing for 10% losses from urea = 12.6 p/kg N

1000 ha at 220 kg/ha N = £27,720 per year savings assuming same price differential.

Capital cost differential is £110,000 for the Kuhn pneumatic - £14,000 for a mounted disc spreader = £96,000. 3.46 seasons to recoup the price difference between the two different spreaders assuming everything else is the same like repairs, daily output etc.

Discuss!

Not such a stupid concept after all, but I'm not changing my system just yet thanks.

Plus you get all the pneumatic benefits, wind speed becomes irrelevant, 100% placement on headlands etc.

cricketandcrops · May 8, 2014

Spread decent granular urea to 30m just can't push it on windy days - wouldn't want to go to 3 though with Urea

Brisel · May 8, 2014

Gilchro said:
On the work rate point, your Aero is a 6000 litre tank but you'll struggle to get a mounted much above 4000 so you can go 50% further between fills. Numbers might be a wee bit off but you'll get about 30ha a fill from the aero vs 20ha from mounted.
To cover your 1000ha, that's 33 loads vs 50 loads.......

And it's a lot kinder to axles rims and cross shafts

My numbers were simple and back-of-fag-packet. Spot work rates with a spinner will be higher but whether seasonal work rates will be higher depends on a number of factors, one of which is hopper size. I'm not working out the differential between a trailed spinner and a trailed pneumatic at this time of night. Over to you!

Gilchro · May 8, 2014

@Brisel no danger

Cause as @Robigus says there are also headland benefits

My head hurts...........

Banana Bar · May 9, 2014

TSP no bother, MOP is a real stretch at 32 m and when we switch to 36 m in the Autumn we will split the tramlines at some point in the year. Nitrogen had to be liquid or boom spreader at 36 m IMHO

BB

Devon Dumpling · May 9, 2014

We have been spreading 36m with an amazone for 8 years now. MOP and TSP fine. Straight N fine. N and sulphur need to buy good stuff and be a bit more picky with windy days.

Chalky · May 9, 2014

We have jointly got the big Kuhn with one of our sister estates( they were moving to wider tramlines & were previously urea & kongskilde pneumatic). Have moved from 100% liquid to 25% of N dose with all sulphur as liquid and all rest of N dose as urea. Just this estate has saved double Brisels number(over liquid albeit)- forgetting the other place. They have 100% use early season when it is catchy to use solid N&S, then once here with urea to get OSR to a finish & twice for wheat. Backed up with chaser bin- has worked well. Payback(fag packet) 3 years. As you all know- purchased UAN etc is not cheap- but I wont knock liquids as they were great- just expensive. We did not own a fert spreader before this. Wind and accuracy not an issue- and for all it is a massive rig- tyre it properly & it travels remarkably well. Currently melting some of our urea stock to make an OSR late foliar top up- that's now cheaper(must be the water these manufacturers use that's so pricey!)

Brisel · May 9, 2014

Chalky said:
We have jointly got the big Kuhn with one of our sister estates( they were moving to wider tramlines & were previously urea & kongskilde pneumatic). Have moved from 100% liquid to 25% of N dose with all sulphur as liquid and all rest of N dose as urea. Just this estate has saved double Brisels number(over liquid albeit)- forgetting the other place. They have 100% use early season when it is catchy to use solid N&S, then once here with urea to get OSR to a finish & twice for wheat. Backed up with chaser bin- has worked well. Payback(fag packet) 3 years. As you all know- purchased UAN etc is not cheap- but I wont knock liquids as they were great- just expensive. We did not own a fert spreader before this. Wind and accuracy not an issue- and for all it is a massive rig- tyre it properly & it travels remarkably well. Currently melting some of our urea stock to make an OSR late foliar top up- that's now cheaper(must be the water these manufacturers use that's so pricey!)

It's good to hear from someone actually using on of these machines.
Where do you think the savings are coming from?
How much cheaper is urea than what you were doing before?
What is the price range between different grades of urea or does it depend on what you can find & when?
How does the machine travel on uneven ground & what do you do around obstacles?

Sorry to bombard you with questions. It's not the Spanish Inquisition.

Chalky · May 9, 2014

Savings for us the difference between UAN and solid urea, on approx. 75% N dose on WW & OSR. £5-10K premium for liquids is a figure you can argue to say as you are, it works, storage, availability, one sprayer etc etc. £40K per annum is a figure even the most committed liquid user (as I was) morally has to question for the business. The opportunity to pool resources arose- so we went for it. Their saving is the opportunity cost of NOT going to liquid, or to a lesser figure, moving to best quality AN to make sure they can (try to) spread to the wider tramline width. Joint area in excess of 3000 ha

You can argue things like this from whichever standpoint you want to suit your decision.

I loved liquid, but money is money- and lots of it as a differential every year.

Travel wise- remarkably good, slow down at the ends & tootle round. With the last dressing on our WW he was up to 20kmh in good long runs- so it is possible. Putting on 165-200 kg/ha. The boom is a big thing, so inertia does effect it. Good operator who knows when to take it steady, and when he can press on a bit. Obstacles- same protocol as the sprayer- depends if a pole or a pylon! Auto section control etc, so all in all a benefit to the two businesses.

l'ordinary bonville · May 12, 2014

Was at the Vicon factory in Holland last week. They seem confident to spread CAN or AN to 33m which is a common width for them and also some people now at a whopping 50m.

They only use or recommend good quality product though.

I cannot see the point of the pneumatic machine as it is almost ready for replacement by the time the fertiliser savings have paid for it.

Don't know whether I am doing the right thing but I spread at 28m with the Amazone but do the half the N as liquid. So the effect of poor spreading for one pass is minimised by the next being liquid. I do urea solid early followed by NS later

Brisel · May 12, 2014

I'm similar to you, but the other way around. NS is solid & goes on early, then the main stem extension doses are split into 2 as straight N. One solid AN & the other is liquid. Final dose on osr is always liquid as the damn stuff grows very quickly in late March & I worry about the spread pattern with solid in a tall crop.

Robigus · May 12, 2014

l'ordinary bonville said:
.......I cannot see the point of the pneumatic machine as it is almost ready for replacement by the time the fertiliser savings have paid for it.
Don't know whether I am doing the right thing but I spread at 28m with the Amazone ........ So the effect of poor spreading for one pass is minimised by the next being liquid. ......

With a pneumatic you would have no poor spreading; you can use the cheapest fertilizer you can lay your hands on; your headlands would receive the same dressing as the rest of the field ; nothing you spread would end up in the ditch or a neighbouring crop; you would have no striping due to cross winds (bearing in mind that the variation would have to be over 20% before it was visible to the eye); you would not have to worry about scorch from liquid; you can keep spreading when your neighbours have stopped because it is too windy or too damp; you can spread granules giving you another weapon in your armoury against grass weeds; you can spread slug pellets accurately removing the risk of them being banned.

Apart from that I can't really think of any benefits of a pneumatic.

l'ordinary bonville · May 12, 2014

Robigus said:
Apart from that I can't really think of any benefits of a pneumatic.

Like it.

It appears to boil down to cost vs benefit. And that depends on total area covered, whether comparing to spinning disc or liquid or combination of the 2 and price of the fert.

By cheapest fertiliser you can lay your hands on, other than urea, what savings can be made over the decent quality N and NS products?

Robigus · May 12, 2014

IAWS (or what ever they are called now) would/will blend stuff for you at no extra cost if the order was a sensible size.
That meant we could get a mix that put the P and K in with the first Urea top dressing, it gave a mix that I was happy to put through a pneumatic but may not have spread that well, out or a spinner.

Spreading Fert 36m

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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