Dairy farmers help me!!

Frodo · Nov 14, 2017

Cowabunga said:
Yes, it means that you offset one enterprise's profit against the other's if that makes you feel better.

I have no earthly idea why a profitable farm with substantial money in the bank would want to get into a capital intensive, labour intensive, 365 day a year volatile business such as dairy at this time rather than keep your money in the bank or convert it into Euros abroad.

Neither do I, but it is hard to avoid the conclusion that, that is what the "progressive", large scale farmers in all agri sectors are doing. Unless they are hugely inefficient anyone over say 1000acres arable must have more than enough money (cash and capital) . They could spend the rest of there days on a cruise ship, but choose to expand further. Why?

supercow · Nov 14, 2017

Cowabunga said:
Yes, it means that you offset one enterprise's profit against the other's if that makes you feel better.

I have no earthly idea why a profitable farm with substantial money in the bank would want to get into a capital intensive, labour intensive, 365 day a year volatile business such as dairy at this time rather than keep your money in the bank or convert it into Euros abroad.

Could not agree more, after the last 3 years I simply can't understand why anyone would ever consider going into dairy. Dairy is not a closed shop, by all means come and join the party but u have be off ur head

lazy farmer · Nov 14, 2017

Cowabunga said:
REALITY CHECK!

I've recently had my benchmarking figures from AHBD.
Up till June 16 the 12 monthly profit for one in four all year round dairy farmers with an average of 250 cows was a LOSS of 23ppl

The average of all such farms was 0.1ppl profit.

Things get better in the year up to June 2017.
One in four [25%] made a LOSS of 16.9ppl
Average profit of 3.1ppl

Those are realistic net margins. They explain why so many large and small units are shutting up shop while those with land and enough family labour [unpaid] have and are expanding.

The main difference between my own profit and the top 25% average is purely down to the 3.5 ppl lower milk price we get here in West Wales according to the figures from AHBD

The figures for the North of Scotland will be similarly affected by a low milk price I imagine, partly the result of both distance and buyer competition [lack of].

These figures do not include the Basic Payment Scheme income, which you get regardless of whether you milk or not and which really makes very little difference to the bottom 40%'s viability.

It is not safe to assume that any new enterprise with new staff will be anywhere above average for the first three years in technical performance. Safer to assume around the top end of the bottom 25%

Any profit generated will be taxable BEFORE trying to repay overhead costs such as building loans. Losses will of course not be taxed but neither will they repay debts.

All that shows is that you have to be anygood .hardly a surprise

Bossfarmer · Nov 14, 2017

happycows said:
If your going to do it just crack on. When i started from first mutterings and getting some figures done to my first milk collection was 4 months. That was with me erecting the shed and doing everything inside from scratch myself with few mates dragged in too help, getting the robot ordered /fitted, tank in, all the electrics. And sourced the cows.

If your confident in your ability and what your dealing with if it's going too be that good why wait??? Watching others who have done the same and made it work all have one thing in common. Get up and go..... They are naturally not dawdlers......

and how are you getting on now its done? how many milking?

Bossfarmer · Nov 14, 2017

Happy at it said:
I know this is all hypothetical but what does your father and brother think of the future boss farmer? Would it not be better working towards a split between yous? and milking a smaller number of cows on your own rather than racing to big numbers and needing the whole farm to drive it?

there may be a split once myself and brother retire in 27 years time, no reason to just now work well together and more efficient to spread machinery costs, you also need more than one person with livestock

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
and how are you getting on now its done? how many milking?

10 years in next April. 85 cows 2 robots, 50 youngstock with hopefully few surplus too sell. Seasonal summer calving and zerograzing. I’m happy as a pig in muck..... most of the time.
I’ve done the big numbers as a herdsman. I’m happy with what I can look after properly on my own bar sons giving me odd day or two off now and again.

Bossfarmer · Nov 14, 2017

happycows said:
10 years in next April. 85 cows 2 robots, 50 youngstock with hopefully few surplus too sell. Seasonal summer calving and zerograzing. I’m happy as a pig in muck..... most of the time.
I’ve done the big numbers as a herdsman. I’m happy with what I can look after properly on my own bar sons giving me odd day or two off now and again.

is it paying well and are the robots behaving?

More to life · Nov 14, 2017

happycows said:
10 years in next April. 85 cows 2 robots, 50 youngstock with hopefully few surplus too sell. Seasonal summer calving and zerograzing. I’m happy as a pig in muck..... most of the time.
I’ve done the big numbers as a herdsman. I’m happy with what I can look after properly on my own bar sons giving me odd day or two off now and again.

Been a while since I last asked have still got that bloody bull

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

Bossfarmer said:
is it paying well and are the robots behaving?

Well enough at the moment that we can spend a bit on some bits and pieces too make life easier. Just changed the Mrs’s car and treated myself too a new gun. Don’t want for too much but then I’m a simple soul.

Only have just over 100 acres and cows is all I know so apart from perhaps going too 100 cows and putting some heifers out too keep I’ll just get on with it and be thankful for what I have.

After 10 years I’ve got too know my brand of robots inside out and just suits me and my system down to a tee.

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

More to life said:
Been a while since I last asked have still got that bloody bull

Oh yes too many people’s disgust, he’s still a ass!!!!.
Got lots of lovely heifers by him this year. His first heifers are just in calf so we will see what comes next year if he was worth it and the ear ache he’s brought me.

Cows 'n grass · Nov 14, 2017

happycows said:
Well enough at the moment that we can spend a bit on some bits and pieces too make life easier. Just changed the Mrs’s car and treated myself too a new gun. Don’t want for too much but then I’m a simple soul.

Only have just over 100 acres and cows is all I know so apart from perhaps going too 100 cows and putting some heifers out too keep I’ll just get on with it and be thankful for what I have.

After 10 years I’ve got too know my brand of robots inside out and just suits me and my system down to a tee.

Is there anyone locally who might grow you 20ac maize?

I understand it's nice not to overstretch the robots but it seems a shame to underutilize them too much. Do you have 100 cubicles?

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

Cows 'n grass said:
Is there anyone locally who might grow you 20ac maize?

I understand it's nice not to overstretch the robots but it seems a shame to underutilize them too much. Do you have 100 cubicles?

No not enough.. I need too move my 90ftx40ft dry cow/calving shed and put 2x20ft bays on the end of current cubicle shed and probably another slurry channel. All possible and not silly money. Question is do I really want it enough or think my life will be that much better with another 15 cows??

pappuller · Nov 14, 2017

Same thoughts been chucked about here at the moment, 3 bots at full tilt now and land in short supply locally, wondering whether we'd be better either looking for a bigger place or just ease off the gas here, thats my preferred option but then the grass is always greener.

Rossymons · Nov 14, 2017

More cows would mean less afternoons by the fire, no?

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

Rossymons said:
More cows would mean less afternoons by the fire, no?

Aye too true and after 18 years of not shooting too milk cows and then get to where I want to be here, a couple of friends have resurrected a shooting syndicate and we’ve got 1200 acres with neighbors in and after 2 weeks we are having a ball despite the water but hey water=ducks. Bugger the cows and pass me the port!
I’ve really enjoyed meeting new people in the syndicate in different professions and talk about something other than cows.

pappuller · Nov 14, 2017

Rossymons said:
More cows would mean less afternoons by the fire, no?

I think less cows would mean more afternoons in front of it !!!

Rossymons · Nov 14, 2017

happycows said:
Aye too true and after 18 years of not shooting too milk cows and then get to where I want to be here, a couple of friends have resurrected a shooting syndicate and we’ve got 1200 acres with neighbors in and after 2 weeks we are having a ball despite the water but hey water=ducks. Bugger the cows and pass me the port!
I’ve really enjoyed meeting new people in the syndicate in different professions and talk about something other than cows.

You're in no rush to get these extra cows then?

happycows · Nov 14, 2017

Rossymons said:
You're in no rush to get these extra cows then?

Well they are here already. It’s wether I choose to milk them or let you.....

Rossymons · Nov 14, 2017

I'm in no rush for extra cows but could do with an extra pair of hands

Penmoel · Nov 14, 2017

@Bossfarmer
Plenty in this thread have told you to take a look at one or two units nearby. I'm not sure exactly where you are but fairly high up north I think. Here is two for you..

I was up in Elgin for two days over the weekend , went to one unit Dean Anderson Plewlands farm ex dairy, sold the 350 cows ten years ago, rotary parlour and all, former Gold cup winner on 3x day milking 11,000 litres plus. Now keeps over 600 sucklers. Labour was his big problem apparently . Smart place and very switched on.

Also someone mentioned Innes Bros by Nairn , is it 1500 cows housed 24/7.

My advise to you is go and see them both.

Dairy farmers help me!!

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