For all the brexit doom mongers

Jackov Altraids · Nov 19, 2017

neilo said:
Have we not been more hamstrung by the gold plating of any rules agreed by our representatives in Europe, by the very folk the dreamers are expecting to rid us of red tape?

I think governments for decades have blamed the EU for their own failings. They shouldn't be surprised about the ill-feeling's they created.
After Brexit, there should be no excuses and our own elected members will be culpable.
What is apparent is that the decision to ban glyphosate in the EU will be made by a few individuals in Germany on a political basis rather than on a democratic, Europe wide, pragmatic environmental one.
This is an example of how continental political union doesn't work.

MickMoor · Nov 19, 2017

Bones said:
Our government,, they'd probability be happy enough not exporting our lamb ,,and importing cheap food from where ever, with no traceability. I don't have much confidence in our leaders

Yes, but how can the gneral public have confidence in an industry that produces its food, yet employs buffoons like this? Yes he had left the engine running as well.

Jackov Altraids · Nov 19, 2017

MickMoor said:
Yes, but how can the gneral public have confidence in an industry that produces its food, yet employs buffoons like this? Yes he had left the engine running as well.

Sorry, whats the problem?
I hate the idea of anyone unnecessarily using a disabled space but there's a fair f-ing choice of spaces even if the para-olympic basketball team turn up.

stevedave · Nov 19, 2017

ford4000 said:
It must be time Wales and Scotland had independence so that they can make their own decisions with their elected representatives! What's good for the goose

I can't speak for what the Scottish parliament is like but do you really want to give more power to those clowns in Cardiff bay. I would be in favor of more power for the Welsh assembly in principal but not more power for the people currently there, could you imagine the mess Carwyn Jones and his incompetent buddies would do given the chance.

Jackov Altraids · Nov 19, 2017

stevedave said:
I can't speak for what the Scottish parliament is like but do you really want to give more power to those clowns in Cardiff bay. I would be in favor of more power for the Welsh assembly in principal but not more power for the people currently there, could you imagine the mess Carwyn Jones and his incompetent buddies would do given the chance.

The trouble with giving too much power to any body is that it is only as good as those in it. The bigger problem is giving extra powers to a good authority only for it to be replaced by a bunch of twunts in a few years time.

stevedave · Nov 19, 2017

Jackov Altraids said:
The trouble with giving too much power to any body is that it is only as good as those in it. The bigger problem is giving extra powers to a good authority only for it to be replaced by a bunch of twunts in a few years time.

We already have the twunts there. The whole claim to fame for the National assembly is our education and health system is not as bad a England ( which is a very debatable statement) but that is like saying it's better to stand in dog sh!t rather than cat sh!t.

czechmate · Nov 19, 2017

ford4000 said:
It must be time Wales and Scotland had independence so that they can make their own decisions with their elected representatives! What's good for the goose

And don't forget Yorkshire

ford4000 · Nov 19, 2017

stevedave said:
I can't speak for what the Scottish parliament is like but do you really want to give more power to those clowns in Cardiff bay. I would be in favor of more power for the Welsh assembly in principal but not more power for the people currently there, could you imagine the mess Carwyn Jones and his incompetent buddies would do given the chance.

So you think that EU is undemocratic and it's better fir the UK to govern itself, except for Wales, because they're not clever enough. Better to let England decide the important things for them.....even if it is P.M. Jeremy Corbyn and his pals in power!

You're not convincing me here! ! [emoji31] [emoji6]

hendrebc · Nov 19, 2017

An independant wales would be good for cardiff and some other parts of the south but not north wales. Can there be an option for north wales to stay with westminster?!

stevedave · Nov 19, 2017

ford4000 said:
So you think that EU is undemocratic and it's better fir the UK to govern itself, except for Wales, because they're not clever enough. Better to let England decide the important things for them.....even if it is P.M. Jeremy Corbyn and his pals in power!

You're not convincing me here! ! [emoji31] [emoji6]

I'm not saying we should never govern our selves but do you want the people currently in Cardiff bay to govern us? I accept it's a chicken and egg situation. We need better politicians first the risk of allowing those already there more power is simple too great.

ford4000 · Nov 19, 2017

hendrebc said:
An independant wales would be good for cardiff and some other parts of the south but not north wales. Can there be an option for north wales to stay with westminster?!

Even with Jeremy Corbyn as P.M. ?[emoji15]

I'm not disagreeing with you about which parts of Wales would benefit most though!

ford4000 · Nov 19, 2017

stevedave said:
I'm not saying we should never govern our selves but do you want the people currently in Cardiff bay to govern us? I accept it's a chicken and egg situation. We need better politicians first the risk of allowing those already there more power is simple too great.

No I don't, sometimes I think the south would vote Labour even if the candidate was a goat!
But I want Jeremy Corbyn and his cronies a lot,lot less than even the present Cardiff lot....but that's democracy and "taking back control" for you

hendrebc · Nov 19, 2017

ford4000 said:
Even with Jeremy Corbyn as P.M. ?[emoji15]

I'm not disagreeing with you about which parts of Wales would benefit most though!

I dont know. I dont think very highly of any high uo politician tbh. Its always like your picking your favourite flavour of vomit

Walterp · Nov 19, 2017

ollie989898 said:
Why should this country be politically hamstrung by a foreign power just because it aids you in selling sheepmeat?

Interesting perspective.

There is no 'foreign power' - there is only a federation of like-minded democracies who share values and attitudes.

True, there is a debate about the extent to which sovereignty should be pooled, and this debate has been ongoing since the Treaty of Rome, and will probably extend well into the future.

But to equate a trade bloc as a 'foreign power'? Really?

As for the OP, may I suggest the following as a corrective - take some lambs to mart, wait for the dealers to arrive, and ask them what would happen to their 'buy' orders if exports to the EU 27 were not viable due to trade fetters (see above for 'trade bloc').

Walterp · Nov 19, 2017

skinnyhoskins said:
Yep and in the german ele tions the far right got20%,and there is still no formed goverment 3 months later still argueing ,merkel cant form a goverment and they call may weak

Interesting.

PR as a voting system often causes extensive delays and debates before viable coalitions are formed - it's commonplace.

It is also an advantage over FPTP because it enables more perspectives to be enabled via consensus and compromise.

It's a beneficial system for this reason. And one reason why EU Parliamentary elections are by PR.

FPTP has concomitant drawbacks - all 'winner takes all' really establishes is a series of dramatic swings in policy that hinder economic and political development. And, in the case of minority Administrations like Theresa May's, this emphasises political weakness rather than ameliorates it.

It's one reason why it often feels that we are are re-visiting the 1970's - because we are.

The UK cannot progress (and, probably will decline) until it addresses both PR and the ownership by foreign nationals of our Press.

Walterp · Nov 19, 2017

hendrebc said:
I dont know. I dont think very highly of any high uo politician tbh. Its always like your picking your favourite flavour of vomit

'You get the politicians you deserve.' (orig. Socrates)

Ashtree · Nov 19, 2017

Need to relax about Jeremy Corbyn folks. He’s a dead cert for PM next time around. Only way Tory’s can hold him off is to adopt a raft of his “Corbynista” policies. It’s catch 22 really.

Danllan · Nov 19, 2017

Walterp said:
...There is no 'foreign power'...

Come off it Wally, one of the biggest 'selling points' for the EU from Remainers - including those on here - has been that the world is dividing into 'power blocks' and we need(ed) to be in the nearest one to us, i.e. the EU. And that power, or 'trading bloc' as you would have it, is now openly preparing for force projection...

With regard to PR, I support it. But only because it is the most democratic way to choose a government that could, in practice, result in effective government; and only if there is no 'minimum' percentage required for a parliamentary seat, if sufficient votes are given to equate to one seat then a 'party' should have it, whatever its policies, providing they are within the law. All votes must carry equal weight,

It would probably lead to more time being needed to form governments and may be less stable than FPTP, but to be more democratic and have referenda on everything would be impractical so, on balance, these two faults would be a price worth paying. My choice would be for a referendum on PR with the guarantee of a second referendum deciding whether to keep it after four parliamentary terms

.

@Ashtree, care to have a punt on JC, what odds will you offer us? I'm sure I'm not the only one who'll be willing to throw away some money betting against your dead cert

.

Two Tone · Nov 19, 2017

Are there too many SOB's (sad old barstewards) on these Brexit threads?

I wonder if some of them will make themselves ill, by it all! (if they haven't already!)
Or are some of them the sort that like to worry and thrive on making others unhappy with worry?

I also wonder if we ought to turn our TV's and radio's off and/or stop reading the newspapers (esp the Independent!) every time something about Brexit is mentioned.

How on earth our politicians can do anything properly when they are so over-scrutinised, I have no idea!
In fact, who the heck would want to be a politician these days when they get so abused by the media?

As a (former) avid Radio 4 listener, I have now switched to listening to Absolute radio, rather than listen to the drivel that is on the Today program and PM programs. These reporters should be utterly ashamed of themselves!!

Why oh why are they allowed to incite such unhappiness amongst the population? Surely some good news would keep us all much more cheerful.

MickMoor · Nov 19, 2017

Jackov Altraids said:
Sorry, whats the problem?
I hate the idea of anyone unnecessarily using a disabled space but there's a fair f-ing choice of spaces even if the para-olympic basketball team turn up.

Hardly surprising that the general public think farners are arrogant beneficiaries of the taxpayers largesse. What other impression does this create?

For all the brexit doom mongers

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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