Forage wagon - I don't believe the hype

Crikey with all the problems associated with sp's and the tonnes of crop lost in the field due to the never ending tornado at the choppers spout, the 90% or so of farmers and contractors who use them must be complete idiots..................interesting

JCfarmer said:

We had a forage wagon to pick up 3rd cut 2 years ago, looked like a good set up. Have to say not impressed. Chop length was too long, it would not consolidate properly and did not make good silage. They have not been back again. What length WILL they chop down to?

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why the fuss about chop length? how long is the grass in bales?or the grass a cow eats?

mushnt grummmble said:

why the fuss about chop length? how long is the grass in bales?or the grass a cow eats?

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Because it was too long to consolidate properly and believe me we made every effort! Bales are not a silage clamp!

mushnt grummmble said:

why the fuss about chop length? how long is the grass in bales?or the grass a cow eats?

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I want it long "the width of a cows muzzle" talking with a chap last October and he'd had 15 cows in 10 months with twists,the chop length of his silage was about 25mm he was giving the cows acces to hay to try and stop this,it wasn't working.

I've been watching this with interest, I'd prefer to use a wagon contractor but there's no one around here.

So how much would a all singing and dancing silage trailer cost? And how much would a wagon cost which would hold the same volume? I understand they'll hold more weight as they compact the grass?

Priced a faro 35 recently with bigger tyres €50 k + that's the baby off the rotor s , 29 knives etc , 90/100hp tractor

S J H said:

I've been watching this with interest, I'd prefer to use a wagon contractor but there's no one around here.

So how much would a all singing and dancing silage trailer cost? And how much would a wagon cost which would hold the same volume? I understand they'll hold more weight as they compact the grass?

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well get your self a brace of forage wagons, do your own and some contracting if none near by,

As a 3 wagon pottinger user-
Stones in reseed- no issue and NO loss of output or chop quality but the blades will need sharpening ar the end of the dat if stones are being picked up. The pottinger knife bank does not knock out if a stone goes through it so there are NO stringy loads.
Fuel use- regardless of light crop / heavy crop there is no question that an efficient wagon team will use less fuel than an efficient sp team doing the same job.
Haul distance- on very long hauls i think that sp still are the best option as a fleet of trailers in an area are easier to get together than say 5 wagons. This said if you roughly run one wagon to 2.5 normal 14t silage trailers the same ha will be cleared that day.
Mature crop chop length- it is important to have sharp blades i.e sharp every morning but even with monster swath and almost dead grass chop length is 100%. I know one wagon contractor who lifts over 4000ac p/a single cut and his customers dont have any issues with chop quality.
Output- wagons are the same as sp and it depends on how much hp is going into the system. As sp hp has creeped up then so has daily outputs- wagons are no different and we can clear as much as the biggest sp with 3 wagons going at moderate cart distance. App 180-240ac per day
Most importantly.....
Pit- yes it is ALOT harder to buckrake than sp and we have had to learn how to do it properly.
1) start at close by fields and lift further carts last- as normal with sp.
2) 1 wagon on close by fields requires 1 decent teleporter plus a tractor rolling
If fields are further away then a tele on its own is 100% fine
3) 2 wagons running in tandem needs an increased pit resource.
I.e 2no tele or one BIG tractor or 416/434
4) very high dm crops - tele is useless at rolling- as normal
5) a bigger tractor is required on the buckrake compared to sp chopped grass. We trialled an 828 v 936 last year and it would take 2.5no 828 to keep up with 936 in wagon silage.
If we pair more than one wagon together we now use reverse drive 939 on the pit and this results in a pit that looks rolled at all times and with very very good compaction. It will handle 3 wagons at close distance EASILY and makes light work of the harder to buckrake wagon silage.
Fuel use with 939 is also ALOT LOWER than a high reving shovel or a smaller tractor working hard. The above said a tele with a normal dung grab can do the same job as long as there is only one wagon running.
Sp will always have their workload but for most farms the right wagons in the right hands can produce very good results and at a significant cost saving so i disagree with previous posts that there is no point in discusding this.

Pennine Ploughing said:

well get your self a brace of forage wagons, do your own and some contracting if none near by,

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I've thought about it, what size wagon would a 6910 pull, mostly flat ground. Do you charge per acre or hour?

Grass Hopper said:

Crikey with all the problems associated with sp's and the tonnes of crop lost in the field due to the never ending tornado at the choppers spout, the 90% or so of farmers and contractors who use them must be complete idiots..................interesting

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I agree, the % lost at the end of a load is tiny and certainly not something that makes the difference between wagon & sp in most conditions.
In certain very dry or very windy conditions or maybe clover etc then if there are losses from start to finnish of a load then there could be a difference but again across all crops and from start to end of season there will be no difference worth bothering about.
As a wagon contractor... as wagons become more accepted then there will be wagon contractors also overload with grass being mushed by the rotor or coming over the sides through trying to pack 2 much in!

cvx175 said:

Every thing you have heard is fact is it? Same as valtra are taking over from jd as top selling tractors? A poorly set up forager may use a lot of diesel but then so will a poorly set up wagon. But then we have heard your argument before, as your 840 couldn't lift 100 acres a day it's impossible for any forager to clear 200+ in a day. Wagons have their place but won't replace spfh on a lot of jobs

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The sale of new wagons here is fact , with over a 100 new machines sold thisyear,, the farmers who tell me that the silage I made for them is better than what they were use to with the sp is fact , I ran a class 860 before I went to wagons , the extra work load Im getting is fact , the fuel saving between the 2 systems in favour of wagons is fact , the saving on labour between the 2 systems is fact , the profit out of cutting silage for hire is a lot more with wagons than with the sp and that is fact , what else do you want to know , Ive run both outfits , been there , wore the jersey , most lads on here are wearing sp blinkers , wake up and smell the roses , my accountant can tell you which outfit makes sence , and it aint the sp.

james ds said:

The sale of new wagons here is fact , with over a 100 new machines sold thisyear,, the farmers who tell me that the silage I made for them is better than what they were use to with the sp is fact , I ran a class 860 before I went to wagons , the extra work load Im getting is fact , the fuel saving between the 2 systems in favour of wagons is fact , the saving on labour between the 2 systems is fact , the profit out of cutting silage for hire is a lot more with wagons than with the sp and that is fact , what else do you want to know , Ive run both outfits , been there , wore the jersey , most lads on here are wearing sp blinkers , wake up and smell the roses , my accountant can tell you which outfit makes sence , and it aint the sp.

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So when all the self propelled boys nearby switch to wagons you're all going to make more profit? How long do you think that will last?

cvx175 said:

So when all the self propelled boys nearby switch to wagons you're all going to make more profit? How long do you think that will last?

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It wont because all the idiots who spend their lives chasing more and more acres to meet the payments because they are undercutting each other and working for same money they did 5 years ago will be doing the same with wagons instead - its life! Me? I just enjoy making the best silage I have ever made with significant savings for us and the customers whilst making a reasonable living because I dont have to join the rat race and compete on price. I shall enjoy it for as long as it continues whilst looking for the next niche opportunity to make money.
I know how to get the best out of the system, I know the systems limitations, I know there are jobs and customers that wont suit the system, I know the system works for me and makes me a profit - no willy waving, just sharing information

ok then if a contractor sells his sp and buys 2 forage wagons because there better save fuel and make him more money how do you harvest maize and whole crop

never worked with a wagon ..worked with a contractor with a tow behind for a start then went to a SP .. used to do pit and also round bale balage
each system had good points and bad
short carts and there were eneff wagons to have on avg one in the paddock picking up all the time i would have to say there would be bugger all in it from the point of speed for clearing a paddock etc etc OK a huge big chopper maybe quicker
long carts some of our silage was sold on farm and carted to dairy farmer 30+ K round trip wagons not a chance to far to slow here it was all 4 axle truck and 4 axle trailer carting 90+kph on the road
big squares used to have 2 balers going 3 truck and trailers carting tubelined on dairy farm that was quick too
for me here if i went away from bales to pit i would go to wagon just would suit me better less gear needed for small amount i do
old dog rases a good point tho mazie or WC

sounds strange but how come with the xerion claas has not made a big pto front linkage chopper for them use it for chopping then drop it off for culty work etc etc so better use of the tractor

ploughman1963 said:

It wont because all the idiots who spend their lives chasing more and more acres to meet the payments because they are undercutting each other and working for same money they did 5 years ago will be doing the same with wagons instead - its life! Me? I just enjoy making the best silage I have ever made with significant savings for us and the customers whilst making a reasonable living because I dont have to join the rat race and compete on price. I shall enjoy it for as long as it continues whilst looking for the next niche opportunity to make money.
I know how to get the best out of the system, I know the systems limitations, I know there are jobs and customers that wont suit the system, I know the system works for me and makes me a profit - no willy waving, just sharing information

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How much per ton do you charge for mowing, tedding, row-up , wagon , buckrake , rolling pit,sheeting pit & come how many liters of fuel per ton.
If you want a job today we are doing a 100 acre block of land & it is a 24 mile round trip, O & The farmer wants it in his pit today.

Speedstar said:

How much per ton do you charge for mowing, tedding, row-up , wagon , buckrake , rolling pit,sheeting pit & come how many liters of fuel per ton.
If you want a job today we are doing a 100 acre block of land & it is a 24 mile round trip, O & The farmer wants it in his pit today.

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24 miles how many carting ??
tad off topic i know and i know pull the drawbar pin and the tractors free for other work same could be said for a truck but why not 6X6 wheel drive tippers ??

JD-Kid said:

24 miles how many carting ??
tad off topic i know and i know pull the drawbar pin and the tractors free for other work same could be said for a truck but why not 6X6 wheel drive tippers ??

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If the land was dry we would do it with trucks but it is not so it is tractors & trailers.

yea understand that here more trucks if doing road work even if trailer towed with tractor in paddock then hook back on to trucks ..can work not bad if there is a spair trailer as choppers still going if there is a hold up with units getting back
costs in the row will be the same any system even pit and covering etc ..
the crunch point is ton's per hour shifted from field to pit some of that bottle neck may even be roads etc
simple question tons per hour with out carting how much will a sp put out and how much will a wagon eat