Do Scottish suckler farmers need support??? Here are the figures

Henarar said:

pretty sure he is not my type no hole in the right place but ya never know till you try

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FFS
Posting sh!t like that publicly is wrong, please leave me out of anything to do with your perverted illness.

Henarar said:

Actually it may be surprising, hate to say it though

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Insurance is good, I hear?

unlacedgecko said:

384 egg capacity and a 21 day batch period means a lot of eggs!

Even doing 12 batches a year and having a 50% sale rate that's 2,304. At a profit of £10/bird that's £23,040. Seems do able to me...

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I make more on eggs than birds but that is good too. Pretty birds. Pretty eggs. Pretty good.

Kiwi Pete said:

Insurance is good, I hear?

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gone up the hill said:

Now these things I would love to hear............................

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well even you were saying today that they are not all bad

gone up the hill said:

Now these things I would love to hear............................

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I do know they do something.
My own belief is that they could do a lot more.

Bossfarmer said:

have you even read the origional post?? the facts are there whether you are in the top third or the bottom third without the sub there is not enough profit in the sector for it to continue, remove support and WE WILL be flooded by irish beef where they are talking of headage payments of 200 euros per cow and a big acreage basic payment, how can we compete???

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err, genuine question

if, as you fear, you will be FLOODED by Irish beef, where does all that EXCESS Irish beef currently go ?

Henarar said:

I do rather like the hill boys line "I should get twice as much sub per acre on my land that cost half as much I could buy twice as much in the first place

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Henarar said:

I don't know where you have got the impression that I think they do ?

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Prehaps I misread your first post?
It reads as hill farmers are asking for twice the amount?

Bossfarmer said:

are you not aware that the world price is low largely due to subsidy across the world though?

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err, I think you'll find the world price of most ag commodities are low due to OVER supply generally . . .

Henarar said:

well even you were saying today that they are not all bad

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NFU union is certainly a waste of time currently, they certainly don't have the ear of Gove for starters and well behind the likes of the NT/ RSPB etc in getting their views across to the policy makers at Whitehall.

AHDB do two good things, one live to dead days for beef/ lamb and the daily market reports, they also have/ had a top bloke working for them on the export side for beef/lamb, trouble is this is three positive things when there is 10 negative things that they do ( example figures )

gone up the hill said:

The sheep haven't lambed and even if they have you are not going to earn a very good living off 22 ewes and a few chickens.

And don't think for one minute im putting down what your doing because im not and fair play for you to start rebuilding your numbers but you aren't doing anyone any favours by saying that you are earning a good living off a handfull of animals.

And what will work with a handfull of animals wont always work when your have several hundred/ thousands of them.

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I never, ever claimed to earn anything from sheep. I am a complete newbie. My first crop will be this year. I expect my ewes to already be worth more than I paid for them as they are now prime. I have pedigree Wilts and Jacobs and they have cost me absolutely nothing in terms of material inputs since I got them. One Jacob was caught before she got here and produced a weak ram lamb so that was a few quid in boosters and he didn't make it anyway. I suspect he was inbred anyway. I made a small profit on the Jacob shearing. Local chap did all 10 for £100 and I cleared that plus some on the fleeces to spinners. I had to treat one for a little foot rot but just a bit of purple chicken spray and moving to steep ground sorted that. Labour is 5 mins a day walking around them and they are up with the birds anyway.

I think the only comments I have made about sheep on here are from my own experience and the massive COP numbers people come up with . I admit I haven't lambed yet but I expect them to do it outside and get on with it. I've pulled plenty of calves and watched plenty of lambing videos so not too concerned if I need to help and think I can judge when that is needed. Plus have sheep men all around me who I can call on. The only way to learn is to do so that's where I am.

What I do need to learn is how many sheep my land can handle before I need to start spending money on feed and I would rather get there gradually and mow when needed than over stock and end up in a pickle. If I assume 150% lambing this year, I can probably expect to be on say 30-35 ewes next year and we'll see how that goes. I certainly do not expect this enterprise to net me big returns, possibly ever. But I do expect a strong return per ewe over their life. Aside from that, they keep the place tidy.

You have no idea how many chickens I have other than what Boss says. I haven't told anyone here or in fact anywhere else other than Animal Health and Defra etc. You don't know what I do with those chickens. It could be broilers, layers, point of lay hens, whatever. People with far less acres than me make a very good living from poultry whether it be retail or sheds.

by god this is going round in circles.....

So am gonna throw something else into the pot...

Like I said in a previous post..... change will come and we shall adapt.....

I dont think there is any real right or wrong from most of the posters on here... ( I am not taking sides)

I like keeping cows.. so will bloody well just get on with it.... sub or no sub... I believe everything will find its level...

Ok.... but before we all get excited about this sub free world..... lets just take a wee look around us...


An extended family member and his partner...

Decided to move from rented 1 bed flat to a 4 bed new estate ( suburb)
A pretty decent jump you would say.. 1 bed rent flat to a 4 bed stand alone...
I said to him.. " how are you gonna finance such a big req for capital??"

He replied... "govt backed help to buy scheme" its easy.... our fund will be topped up by developer.......

Now call me a simple crofter.... but that seems to be a sub to the house building industry....

Few months later ....

Was invited to house warming....

Bloody hell there was a new car in the drive way...

How did you manage that I asked????

ah he said.... " govt backed scrap-age scheme with the dealer"

Again call me a simple crofter.. but that seems to me like a sub to the car industry...

There is more yet!!!!!!!

His partner.. sets up a small craft business in the garage from home.. real cottage industry stuff...

low and behold.. all supported by local govt enterprise schemes..soft loans..free business advice......etc etc.....

So before we all rush to say we can do X Y Z to produce Beef.. with or without subs....

Lets take a wee second to look around and see lots of everyday life having some sort of govt intervention to keep it on the straight and narrow....

Sheeponfire OUT

Henarar said:

Field A ten acres cost £100/acre to rent and get a sub of £50/acre

Field B twenty acres cost only £50/acre because it will only produce half as much grass as field A and gets a sub of £100/acre [because its poor land]

which would be the best to rent ?

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Good land every time, I could get entitlement of a higher value to claim off that field, because for some weird reason the payment is half that of the alternative field.
Realistically, a double grass yield (with the same input as the poor 20 acres) would suggest an extended grazing period, which would suggest free draining soil, so there may be milege in wintering cattle on there.

Henarar said:

that's all the information you get, and you need some grass for your cattle tomorrow and you can only buy one lot, what you gona do ? or let them starve
or more rubbish

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But I would go and rent the other field 10 minutes after, because if I was stupid enough to be in a situation where cattle were going to starve if I didn't either rent a 10 or 20 acre field, i'd say 30 acres would be a wiser move than either 10 or 20.

If farmers are letting themselves get into situations where stock are going to starve within 24 hours of securing grass for them, I would say you need to consider another career, and I find it weird that anyone would come up with such a hypothetical situation.

Sheeponfire said:

by god this is going round in circles.....

So am gonna throw something else into the pot...

Like I said in a previous post..... change will come and we shall adapt.....

I dont think there is any real right or wrong from most of the posters on here... ( I am not taking sides)

I like keeping cows.. so will bloody well just get on with it.... sub or no sub... I believe everything will find its level...

Ok.... but before we all get excited about this sub free world..... lets just take a wee look around us...


An extended family member and his partner...

Decided to move from rented 1 bed flat to a 4 bed new estate ( suburb)
A pretty decent jump you would say.. 1 bed rent flat to a 4 bed stand alone...
I said to him.. " how are you gonna finance such a big req for capital??"

He replied... "govt backed help to buy scheme" its easy.... our fund will be topped up by developer.......

Now call me a simple crofter.... but that seems to be a sub to the house building industry....

Few months later ....

Was invited to house warming....

Bloody hell there was a new car in the drive way...

How did you manage that I asked????

ah he said.... " govt backed scrap-age scheme with the dealer"

Again call me a simple crofter.. but that seems to me like a sub to the car industry...

There is more yet!!!!!!!

His partner.. sets up a small craft business in the garage from home.. real cottage industry stuff...

low and behold.. all supported by local govt enterprise schemes..soft loans..free business advice......etc etc.....

So before we all rush to say we can do X Y Z to produce Beef.. with or without subs....

Lets take a wee second to look around and see lots of everyday life having some sort of govt intervention to keep it on the straight and narrow....

Sheeponfire OUT

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agreed but what a sad state of affairs. it appears Scotland has gone very progressive in how it hands it tax receipts out! anything @Bossfarmer could claim on?

[

M-J-G said:

Good land every time, I could get entitlement of a higher value to claim off that field, because for some weird reason the payment is half that of the alternative field.
Realistically, a double grass yield (with the same input as the poor 20 acres) would suggest an extended grazing period, should would suggest free draining soil, so there may be milege in wintering cattle on there.


But I would go and rent the other field 10 minutes after, because if I was stupid enough to be in a situation where cattle were going to starve if I didn't either rent a 10 or 20 acre field, i'd say 30 acres would be a wiser move than either 10 or 20.

If farmers are letting themselves get into situations where stock are going to starve within 24 hours of securing grass for them, I would say you need to consider another career, and I find it weird that anyone would come up with such a hypothetical situation.

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the question wasn't nesaserly for you anyway I didn't quote anyone in the post but well done in the end, its been fun and lazy farmer got an answer he didn't expect along the way
till next time

lazy farmer said:

agreed but what a sad state of affairs. it appears Scotland has gone very progressive in how it hands it tax receipts out! anything @Bossfarmer could claim on?

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has he got kids ?

exmoor dave said:

Prehaps I misread your first post?
It reads as hill farmers are asking for twice the amount?

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It's ok for you, I have to rent imaginary land that I'm not allowed any information on, and the good land is getting half the payment of the poor land.
But it's ok because H.G. Wells is the landlord, so I'll pay him in old money.

M-J-G said:

have to rent imaginary land that I'm not allowed any information on,

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see above

lazy farmer said:

agreed but what a sad state of affairs. it appears Scotland has gone very progressive in how it hands it tax receipts out! anything @Bossfarmer could claim on?

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Would a new cattle shed get anything?

tepapa said:

Would a new cattle shed get anything?

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not sure in Scotland but down here if its covering a cattle yard that's already there you can get the legs and roof for very little since they changed the payment rates

Henarar said:

[

the question wasn't nesaserly for you anyway I didn't quote anyone in the post but well done in the end, its been fun and lazy farmer got an answer he didn't expect along the way
till next time

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It's not really an answer to anything, as a decision needs to be based on all the information available, of which there was next to none provided, so it had to be assumed.
To make a decision on such a poor supply of data is not key to sound business, so isn't something I'd do in real life.

I am puzzled that some would assume that they would get a gainful answer from such an unintelligent question, , when the answer is based on assumptions as opposed to information.
Providing details would have allowed the discussion to have a point, but unfortunately it hasn't.