Do Scottish suckler farmers need support??? Here are the figures
- Thread starter Bossfarmer
- Start date
yes I do think they should receive payments at the moment
where have I said any different ?
lazy farmer
Member
- Location
- som/dor border
i know, how do you manage that?
M-J-G
Member
In the above, I detected an attempt to establish a link between land value and payments.
Or what was your point in that post?
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That's ok then
Maybe just once you could read the post and answer what is actually written.
The only remedy available for unfair competition lies in legislation.
What effect does all stabilisation have on world prices - I don't know it it would seem that you don't either
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
By stabilisation - do you mean oversupply, as a means of driving prices down to COP, to necessitate future oversupply?
In layman's terms - you must maximise output in most countries to survive.
As we see here, as the focus is nearly always on the returns on produce and seldom the cost of production; yield focus is the result of too much intervention at every level, whether we are talking arable, livestock, or mainstream agriculture in general.
The idea that plants grow unassisted, animals will reproduce themselves unassisted, and farmers can thrive unassisted - does it not bother 95% of posters that these concepts are being lost?
Where lies the future of mankind, in the scenario that food cannot be grown without the help of Dow Monsanto Bayer et al ?
It is all a conspiracy, it's no theory.
Primary Producers are the suckers, pushed around due to a general apathy to change - when things are good it's time to look towards change, not when the wheels are beginning to fall off.
Cellphones are a prime example of how far farmers are behind the ball: as one model is being released to the world the next improvements are being polished to guarantee future successes - you just don't see this forward thinking in agriculture.
Farmers seem content to drive the forklift in the warehouse instead of being CEO and head of their development division.
Farming simply has to change to meet the needs of the future, it barely meets the needs of the present- of its own participants in many cases.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
f**king chasing higher yields & more production as a solution
feeding the world
FFS . . .
err, I hope you're not grouping all your western cousins as well into this observation of modern agriculture ( although I will admit you'll find examples of this here also )
Pete, WHY is it sooo hard ?
Why are the most basic of attitudes / mindsets / ideologies SO different between the hemispheres ?
ps - in your own cryptic NZ way you sum up the situation very well I believe & have also given me recourse to look more critically at what I do here
sowing a small seed . . .
only works though if people are prepared to think rather than just being led or pushed . . .
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
You'll find plenty of farmers here esp. in dairy and to an extent arable persue the same busted arse model of attempted oversupply - I think because of the knife-edge of volatility in our grain prices a few years has wiped them out.fudgeing chasing higher yields & more production as a solution
feeding the world
FFS . . .
err, I hope you're not grouping all your western cousins as well into this observation of modern agriculture ( although I will admit you'll find examples of this here also )
Pete, WHY is it sooo hard ?
Why are the most basic of attitudes / mindsets / ideologies SO different between the hemispheres ?
ps - in your own cryptic NZ way you sum up the situation very well I believe & have also given me recourse to look more critically at what I do here
sowing a small seed . . .
only works though if people are prepared to think rather than just being led or pushed . . .
But it's not a UK or even a Europe issue - oversupply hurts producers everywhere.
For the work we put into what we produce it's only really the southern hemisphere that is getting much reward.
Northern hemisphere has an alternative reward system in place - maybe that's the difference - here we have to be more market and customer aware, up north they are more poltically minded.. it depends who you serve, the markets or the government.
Either way oversupply is the issue, whether it's beef lamb or grain - there is no shortage in the developed world, only in the third world; this is why there is the WTO, to safeguard the third world from food producers with an entitlement complex as is displayed on here at times
Oversupply and undersupply - these poor nations of people are starving, while Europe and USA try to keep a grip on the world's wealth.
Guess where that's going to end?
Affluence, wealth, so much food you can eat what you like and throw the rest in a bin.... immigration or give up the protectionism, are about the only options.
Either way, the current capitalist model will need considerably better leadership going forward, instead of thinly veiled corruption again using money as a winding-sheet.
It cannot last - this is as good as it can get - I hope people realise "The Peak" has been reached and have a descent plan (and a decent plan, many are plotting)
Let's see how sustainable our models are!
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surely you need to focus on both
If you can have more of something to sell, or something to sell that commands a higher price without upping your costs to a point where they cancel any gain out that is no bad thing ? just as cutting costs so long as it doesn't cut the value of anything you sell to a point where it cancels any gain out is no bad thing ?
but as the saying goes its easier to save a pound than make one
we can all cut costs, just do nothing
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It seems to be the way forward for some, unfortunately even if the figures in the OP are a little off, when do you draw the line?
Serious question?
When's it a f**ked job?
not sure what your getting at when you say it seems to be the way forward for some, what seems to be the way forward
as for when is the job forked hopefully you see it coming and do something different before you go down the tube, I work on "the last five years" if this has been ok then carry on but taking in to consideration changes that are coming that are out of your control, I don't think its a good idea to make decisions based on one bad year, I also think that if you can't stand a bad year then perhaps you shouldn't be farming, this is taking in to account the difference between a bad year and a forking disaster
just read this again and thought I would say that is how I approach a lot of jobs it sounds lazy and it may well be but I often think of a job I could do on the farm and maybe should do and then think well what would happen if I didn't bother, the reason being that doing something very often costs money
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Sorry - the saving a pound bit.
Not necessarily doing nothing but re-examining the direction and the business model.
It is the way ahead for most, I truly believe that the return doesn't warrant the spend as often as it gets spent - don't know if that makes sense it not.
Example: much of the tech and genetic advancement in sheep farming, recording and all that jazz makes huge leaps in terms of productivity, yet what could be productive flocks still need every possible bit of expenditure and then some which seems to not only take care of the margin but hard on the farmer too.
Possibly some of the health issues are solely related to the intensity of the operation, either present or past.
And cropping, costs that match or beat the price year after year - as you say the 5 year average - that's why I asked when "the duty to feed king and country" is a bad job?
It's nothing new, the downward spiral, or "race to the bottom" and I know how fortunate I am to be doing it over here without distortion - but it still worries the crap out of me:
At what point do farmers do something as opposed to just put up with it and carry on?
Are farmers happy to produce lots and lots for very little, often at the expense of their health, their family, their soil, or their best years of life?
I've had a fairly big change on how I view it, hence my "bare minimum" approach to farm operations and spending.
Just see you posted again and that's what I meant too - there's lots more I could do but it won't happen until it makes sense to spend the money on it.
I could build nice permanent sheepyards but then I'd want to get them in all the time and fuss over them to justify it.
Portable yards still work so that's where I'm at.
(Only one bit of twine so it's not completely mickey mouse!)
Good post K Pete but i think you would never regret building an easy working permanent yard.
and if you did i bet you wouldn't over handle your sheep ...who the heck would want to do that ..
and if you did i bet you wouldn't over handle your sheep ...who the heck would want to do that ..
Nart wrong with string its cheap
If you don't spend it you don't have to make it back
I can't talk about kit I have far to much of it here most of it from when we done far more contracting than we do now
That said some folk do seem to buy something then make up reasons to justify it. Again I have done that in the past but now tend to look to see if I could do without something
If you don't spend it you don't have to make it back
I can't talk about kit I have far to much of it here most of it from when we done far more contracting than we do now
That said some folk do seem to buy something then make up reasons to justify it. Again I have done that in the past but now tend to look to see if I could do without something
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Good post K Pete but i think you would never regret building an easy working permanent yard.
and if you did i bet you wouldn't over handle your sheep ...who the heck would want to do that ..
Tis all pretty hi-tech around here.
Thing is I don't worm them or give them jabs of stuff so I really only have a sorting race and a means to draft them.
Only have 500 and they roar out that open door like it's Valhalla.... especially up the ramp onto a truck.
It owes me about £200 all up
But yeah, decent wee set of wooden yards out the back would be nice, one day.
Might mill a tree
my cattle yard timbers travelled about 30 yards or so from where they grew upYep some things are worth a few quidGood post K Pete but i think you would never regret building an easy working permanent yard.
and if you did i bet you wouldn't over handle your sheep ...who the heck would want to do that ..
looks better than mineView attachment 624154 View attachment 624152
Tis all pretty hi-tech around here.
Thing is I don't worm them or give them jabs of stuff so I really only have a sorting race and a means to draft them.
Only have 500 and they roar out that open door like it's Valhalla.... especially up the ramp onto a truck.
It owes me about £200 all up
But yeah, decent wee set of wooden yards out the back would be nice, one day.
Might mill a tree
Most recent handling here has been for fluke which can cost big time.
do you dip ? and if so is it big cost/hassle to dispose of etc ?