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You speak as both sides of the argument speak with an united voice a single piont of view. A them and us approach harping back to the referendum.
A question for Brexit hating Guardian readers or any other Remainers
- Thread starter Hay Farmer
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Danllan
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No response then? (In fact, not sure what you mean by that, please explain
)Pot, kettle, black...
Before the Referendum I made it clear that if the result was not what I wanted I would respect it. Many Remainers said the same, most have kept their word.
Out of interest what do you, + @DrWazzock for that matter, think would happen if we were to have a change of mind and, say, in a 3rd referendum 51.5% voted to remain in / re-join the EU?
Do you think the UK as a sovereign entity would still be so in twenty years? Are you happy at the thought of an unaccountable EU Army? Would you be pleased to see the 'ever closer union' completed? Do you like the idea of never being able to leave, without permission? Bearing in mind the utter failure of the EC to change or concede on any matter regarding its ever-extending reach, will you be happy to see the end of nation states?
Perhaps you will be, some are and although I think it a pretty awful thing, they are entitled to hold that opinion and full credit to them if they are honest enough to admit it. If you like these ideas please admit as much; if you don't like them and / or think them likely to happen, what absolute guarantees can you give us Eurosceptics that these things will not happen, or are you advocating a leap into the great unknown?
Responses please.
Our previous attempts have not drawn a single response. Maybe they had not even thought of the consequences when they decided upon the laissez-faire option. Well perhaps they should have done and save Gina Miller and her cronies from causing so much distress and division.No response then? (In fact, not sure what you mean by that, please explain
Pot, kettle, black...
Before the Referendum I made it clear that if the result was not what I wanted I would respect it. Many Remainers said the same, most have kept their word.
Out of interest what do you, + @DrWazzock for that matter, think would happen if we were to have a change of mind and, say, in a 3rd referendum 51.5% voted to remain in / re-join the EU?
Do you think the UK as a sovereign entity would still be so in twenty years? Are you happy at the thought of an unaccountable EU Army? Would you be pleased to see the 'ever closer union' completed? Do you like the idea of never being able to leave, without permission? Bearing in mind the utter failure of the EC to change or concede on any matter regarding its ever-extending reach, will you be happy to see the end of nation states?
Perhaps you will be, some are and although I think it a pretty awful thing, they are entitled to hold that opinion and full credit to them if they are honest enough to admit it. If you like these ideas please admit as much; if you don't like them and / or think them likely to happen, what absolute guarantees can you give us Eurosceptics that these things will not happen, or are you advocating a leap into the great unknown?
Responses please.
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European army is cost cutting exercise with little relevance to the uk .Closer union within the euro block has to be a good thing coincidentally the euro in general was a bad idea. This never being able to leave idea is a direct result of Brexit how you enforce it I've know idea.
I've never said I don't respect the referendum result how ever misguided, but you would agree I am entitled to my opinion.
I've never said I don't respect the referendum result how ever misguided, but you would agree I am entitled to my opinion.
Euro army thingy, is just nonsense. If UK, were to decide not to be involved I’m sure they could decide as such, and stay out of it. Like as in the Euro.
Think of the benefits of a large military apparatus sitting between Vlad and Blighty. Can’t understand the problem ........ unless of course Britain would like to continue as the predominant military power in Europe. It does like to make a bit of heat around the world when Uncle SAM clicks his spurs, and tells Britain this is where you go, this is what you do, thus when you will do it, and when it’s done, report back to us.
Think of the benefits of a large military apparatus sitting between Vlad and Blighty. Can’t understand the problem ........ unless of course Britain would like to continue as the predominant military power in Europe. It does like to make a bit of heat around the world when Uncle SAM clicks his spurs, and tells Britain this is where you go, this is what you do, thus when you will do it, and when it’s done, report back to us.
How do you square the push for a federal state without a single currency and unified fiscal policy ? Who commands the European army and where does the commander in chief get his mandate from? It will certainly have some relevance to the UK even though we will have been long gone.
The Euro army is dangerous nonsense, so why do the Eurocrats keep pushing for it ? You still have not heard of the Federal state where opt-outs will not be possible. Wise up Ashy .
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I don't need to I'm not in agreement with either but closer union within the euro group is the only way to make the euro sustainable long term. I consider the European project to have many flaws but on balance I believe fixing them or at least trying to from the inside is preferable from being a rule taker as we will inevitably be post Brexit.
Danllan
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Of course we are all entitled to our opinions, but I'd appreciate a bit of meat on the bones from you...
We know, from experience that EU / EC power never retracts once it has its hooks into something - much like Islam; how do you know that the EU Army will be of little relevance to the UK, what evidence is there to back that assertion? Why does closer union 'have to be a good thing' when, for a start, decreased sovereignty and accountability are concomitant with that? How could there be ever closer union without a single currency, or government etc. for that matter?
You make statements as if they are factual, rather than aspirational, with nothing to back them; all experience so far, empirical evidence if you like, indicates that the EU / EC puts no weight on democracy, they know best and all must follow time and again.
I see little point in further correspondence if you can't, or won't, back up your claims.
wanton dwarf
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The Euro cannot work until all cultures change to be similar which isn't going to happen IMHO.
When nation states had their own currencies they could increase or decrease in value to increase or decrease employment.
Now the ONLY option is to move to another country with jobs, which is why Freedom of movement exists. Not everyone will move nor is it a good thing for stable communities. When those that do move and perhaps change their culture, are they going to move back and find a receptive culture willing & receptive to change ?
No, they'll find a jaded and antaganistic population who rightly feel left out. Of course most won't and cannot move back anyway.
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Fine
British Army is dangerous nonsense. US army is dangerous nonsense. Went along against the wishes and counsel of most of the world and the EU, to start the Iraq war, based on concocted intelligence.
World is dealing with the fallout since. Immigrants flooding into Europe have a lot more to do with illegal criminal wars carried out by USA and its poodle than the EU itself.
Britain is in no place to lecture the EU or anybody else in military matters.
Oh, by the way, that was a nice bit of free trading done by Britain during the week. Nothing like selling hardware to “democrstic” nations! Is there?
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/saudi-arabia-expected-buy-48-typhoon-jets-uk-145500825.html
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This is correct and why with hindsight the euro was a bad idea. The question remains as to how to improve things the abolition of the euro being the least palatable to the EU
wanton dwarf
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The UK & USA army are ultimately controlled by the electorate as Blair & Bush found out.
Who is going to stop nutters with an EU army ?
No thanks, I don't want another European dicatorship.
wanton dwarf
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The Euro is there so Germany has a weak currency to trade with and plenty of space to expand it's economy without getting currency problems.
When most of Europe is working for Germany something might change.
If you folks didn’t follow orders from the Whitehouse and carry out illegal wars and wanton slaughter of populations as far away as Iraq, there would be far less displaced and angry people in the world today. Your own sovereign parliment voted to join an illegal war in Iraq.! Much of that fallout has turned up in the form of displaced people looking for food and shelter.
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That's certainly been the result do you think it was the plan tho.
wanton dwarf
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It always comes down to the fact you don't like England.
How's about getting the Irish Navy to stop being taxis for Human Traffickers ?
wanton dwarf
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For Germany ? Yes.
Everyone else just wanted to be better, probably keep thier culture and have a bit more money.
The fact is the EU is a highly political organisation, when it should just be economic co-operation.
Danllan
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Presumably anyone criticising the UK for selling arms, to e.g. Saudi Arabia, is against it on principal; an entirely reasonably view to take. Of course, that would mean that any other country selling them arms, regardless of amount, was also wrong. Hmm... difficult things principals and consistency...
http://www.euronews.com/2017/11/30/which-eu-countries-sell-arms-to-saudi-arabia-
http://www.euronews.com/2017/11/30/which-eu-countries-sell-arms-to-saudi-arabia-