Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Innovis Ram Sale
- Thread starter Nithsdale
- Start date
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
Such a struggle uploading photos on here!!!
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Only the price perhaps? I have had nothing to do with them, so can’t comment really.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Perhaps 
- Location
- Fife
Disclaimer; I may well be talking complete rubbish. @neilo @Nithsdale Farmer see below.
Edit, I asked my tame geneticist (aka The Wife). She’s speed read a few papers and I am in fact, talking complete rubbish.
The gene is GDF9. It is a mutation of this gene which causes increased litter size in Finn and Norwegian white sheep.
The Inverdale gene is a mutation of the gene BMP15 (not a Russian APC!). There are several variations of mutation of this gene, with the Inverdale one being referred to as FecX(I). Different mutations of the same gene exists within Hanna (FecX(H)) and Beclare (FecX(G)).
The Inverdale gene only exists on the X chromosome. So all tups are heterozygous, as they are XY. Mating Inverdale ewes to Inverdale tups should be avoided as homozygous Inverdale animals are sterile.
https://genetics.zoetis.com/newzealand/_locale-assets/documents/inverdale_info_sheet_nz.pdf
Last edited:
John Chance
Member
We use Abermax tups as terminals. There's others doing the performance recording thing. Easy Rams, Logie Durno, etc. F. knows who does the best job, but happy enough with the Abermax lads.
Downton_shep
Member
- Location
- Leintwardine
From what I heard at the RWS there’s ABERGOAT in the pipeline 
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
There are even a few doing the same within most of the UK terminal sire breeds
. @gatepost @farmer james , etc, etc.....easyram1
Member
- Location
- North Shropshire
You are correct GDF9 and Inverdale genes are totally different in their mode of action and the results. As far as I am aware Innovis are and have been the only people in the UK using and able to access the Inverdale Gene.
So far as GDF 9 is concerned we have 4 ewe hoggs ( ewe lambs ) that are all double carriers and who are leaving Auckland later this week and arriving at Heathrow on Thursday - so much excitement about them and the rams accompanying them
MJT
Member
For those whose have asked, Aberdale are just texel rams that carry the inverdale gene, as well as have the bonus of being reared on an outdoor system and selected for maternal ability . Stories of stupid amounts of quads and Quinn’s are through shepherd faults I’d say, ours crossed with Cheviots do 190-195% . I’d imagine the stupidly high percentages are from some idiots crossing them with mules or similar .
Basically they’re ideal to cross with hill ewes to produce a prolific texel x ewe that’s not as hungry or high maintanence as a mule. Here’s the basic outline how the gene works .
Basically they’re ideal to cross with hill ewes to produce a prolific texel x ewe that’s not as hungry or high maintanence as a mule. Here’s the basic outline how the gene works .
You forgot about @neilo with the charollais he does quite a bit of recording tooThere are even a few doing the same within most of the UK terminal sire breeds
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
As Easyram says, different genes.You are correct GDF9 and Inverdale genes are totally different in their mode of action and the results. As far as I am aware Innovis are and have been the only people in the UK using and able to access the Inverdale Gene.
So far as GDF 9 is concerned we have 4 ewe hoggs ( ewe lambs ) that are all double carriers and who are leaving Auckland later this week and arriving at Heathrow on Thursday - so much excitement about them and the rams accompanying them
Contrary to popular belief you can mate inverdale rams to inverdale ewes, yes half the offspring are sterile but the also have no nipples we are easy identify. I scan for a couple of guys that do this and it is a nice simple system.
GDF9 is in the Norwegian white has a lift in BV of about .25 per copy of the gene but early results in NZ have been variable. In my flock the carrier hoggets were better than the non carrier hoggets but there was no difference in the adult ewes. Another flock in NZ has shown lift when comparing carrier and non carrier daughters of carrier rams but the best non carrier rams were still better.
I'm still putting selection emphasis on it but with caution.
We have identified another fertility gene which is related to the Booroola gene, initial look indicates it has an affect but no further study has been done. It is possible that this gene is disguising the affect of the GDF9 gene, in that the animals that don't carry GDF9 carry the other gene.
The Cambridge breed carries GDF9 as well, two variants of it in fact as well as two variants of a gene similar to Inverdale.
Global ovine
Member
- Location
- Central Otago NZ
GDF9 is an interesting gene which can be masked by a flock with innate higher fertility achieved by the presence of another major gene (Inverdale, Booroola etc. and their variants) or by a history of selection for higher lambing/scanning %.
It does not have the massive lift in multiples of the Booroola or Inverdale genes, but gives a lift to what are traditionally considered low fecundity breeds to achieve a lambing % acceptable in most maternal breeds. This is why there is excitement in finding it in Texels.
In NZ, Texels have dropped the lambing % in their Romney X daughters by about 15% below that of their Romney dams. GDF9 counters this. This gene is not the only answer to counter this negative effect from Texel cross dams. Several NZ Texel breeders have established maternal lines of Texel via intensive selection to increase their lambing % and weaning weight, without losing any of the terminal advantages. Most of these flocks are now well represented in the imports to the Easyram Texel flock. No negative effects exist in double copy (homozygous) carriers.
The Inverdale gene not only offers a 0.4 increase in average litter size, but offers the ability not to have ewes in good BCS traditionally seen as necessary to achieve an acceptable lambing % ie. no flushing. This is advantageous following a poor spring/summer. Infertility in homozygous individuals is a negative.
Innovis control the release of this gene and have done a good job promoting its specific use into the UK sheep industry.
It does not have the massive lift in multiples of the Booroola or Inverdale genes, but gives a lift to what are traditionally considered low fecundity breeds to achieve a lambing % acceptable in most maternal breeds. This is why there is excitement in finding it in Texels.
In NZ, Texels have dropped the lambing % in their Romney X daughters by about 15% below that of their Romney dams. GDF9 counters this. This gene is not the only answer to counter this negative effect from Texel cross dams. Several NZ Texel breeders have established maternal lines of Texel via intensive selection to increase their lambing % and weaning weight, without losing any of the terminal advantages. Most of these flocks are now well represented in the imports to the Easyram Texel flock. No negative effects exist in double copy (homozygous) carriers.
The Inverdale gene not only offers a 0.4 increase in average litter size, but offers the ability not to have ewes in good BCS traditionally seen as necessary to achieve an acceptable lambing % ie. no flushing. This is advantageous following a poor spring/summer. Infertility in homozygous individuals is a negative.
Innovis control the release of this gene and have done a good job promoting its specific use into the UK sheep industry.
TALDLONKTUP2
Member
You've previously said that the inheritability of lambing percentage is so low that it would take a "lifetime to change it by a tiny amount" ........
NZDan
Member
- Location
- Broomfield, New Zealand
Which is the great thing about major genes and the ability to test for them relatively cheaply, a life times gains can now be made in just a few years.
I believe the Chinese have gene edited some sheep to be homozygous GDF9 and GDF8 and a short tail gene and are multiplying them rapidly.
It is likely that more single genes with major effects on many productive traits will be discovered in the near future.
TALDLONKTUP2
Member
That's missing the point but any way.....
They could have saved themselves the bother and got some rough fell mules!....
Last edited:
We are breeding Belclares(composites) now and they have been found to have variants of the genes BMP15, BMPR1B and GDF9, how these genes all interact I'm not finding much info on.
How advantage would it be spending the money identifying whose got what? Or is just sound phenotype recording the best bet. Or maybe both? (thinking outloud!)
How advantage would it be spending the money identifying whose got what? Or is just sound phenotype recording the best bet. Or maybe both? (thinking outloud!)
ryanmcmac45
Member
- Location
- lreland