Anyone at Logie Durno sale?

andybk · Aug 16, 2018

neilo said:
My ram lambs (to be sold as shearling) are certainly on poorer grass than my weaned commercial lambs. Very little grass here so got to prioritise.
Apart from my early mob, they are treated just like my commercial lambs early on, and expected to grow on the same grazed ration as them. They certainly don’t get special treatment here, my management’s not good enough for that.

same here , no different to commercials , no roots over winter either , i do get some red clover leys over winter if the frost doesnt get there first , then about 1lb of oats from june to sale on old perm pasture . But then we cant sell at Builth , bit sad really , that many commercial men cant see past the gloss , bearing in mind you have one of the top recorded flocks .

Top Tip. · Aug 16, 2018

neilo said:
If you say so. I would say the roots are replacing the non-existent grass and any baled forage.

Do you not find that if for any reason you did not have the the roots available that they really struggle as this has been my experience with hogs wintered on roots,the following year as gimmers they did badly when they were not on the root diet,I am not alone in this as most hill farmers up here will refuse to let their hogs be turnip wintered just because of how badly they do after it. Roots are fine for fattening,but you obviously make them work for you in the breeding situation.

neilo · Aug 16, 2018

Top Tip. said:
Do you not find that if for any reason you did not have the the roots available that they really struggle as this has been my experience with hogs wintered on roots,the following year as gimmers they did badly when they were not on the root diet,I am not alone in this as most hill farmers up here will refuse to let their hogs be turnip wintered just because of how badly they do after it. Roots are fine for fattening,but you obviously make them work for you in the breeding situation.

I would really struggle if I had no roots for them in the winter, as we have too many mouths and no grass at that time of year (no cattle so no magically freed up grass from them). If I had access to free/cheap tack, as I did back home in the Cotswolds, I would probably use that instead, but purely on a cost basis. I know a lot locally that send their rams off to dairy farms for the winter, but I really don't see feeding roots as being any worse for them long term. My customers tell me that the rams last OK anyway, as Easyrams, Logie Durno & Innovis claim too, all of which winter their rams on roots I believe.
The way I keep them on roots, it wouldn't be a fattening ration. Lambs need access to more, and not be made to clear every last bit up, in order to fatten on roots. I store them on roots, then they take off again on fresh grass in the Spring.

Top Tip. · Aug 16, 2018

neilo said:
I would really struggle if I had no roots for them in the winter, as we have too many mouths and no grass at that time of year (no cattle so no magically freed up grass from them). If I had access to free/cheap tack, as I did back home in the Cotswolds, I would probably use that instead, but purely on a cost basis. I know a lot locally that send their rams off to dairy farms for the winter, but I really don't see feeding roots as being any worse for them long term. My customers tell me that the rams last OK anyway, as Easyrams, Logie Durno & Innovis claim too, all of which winter their rams on roots I believe.
The way I keep them on roots, it wouldn't be a fattening ration. Lambs need access to more, and not be made to clear every last bit up, in order to fatten on roots. I store them on roots, then they take off again on fresh grass in the Spring.

Thanks for that explanation

sheepwise · Aug 16, 2018

Top Tip. said:
Do you not find that if for any reason you did not have the the roots available that they really struggle as this has been my experience with hogs wintered on roots,the following year as gimmers they did badly when they were not on the root diet,I am not alone in this as most hill farmers up here will refuse to let their hogs be turnip wintered just because of how badly they do after it. Roots are fine for fattening,but you obviously make them work for you in the breeding situation.

FFS I have a field of swedes growing at our hill place this year with the intention of wintering the hill ewe hoggs(cheviot and blackies) at home. You've got me worried now!!

scholland · Aug 16, 2018

sheepwise said:
FFS I have a field of swedes growing at our hill place this year with the intention of wintering the hill ewe hoggs(cheviot and blackies) at home. You've got me worried now!!

We've wintered dry hoggs on swedes the last 4 years and not seen any problems in the gimmers during their second winter on grass /feed

sheepwise · Aug 16, 2018

scholland said:
We've wintered dry hoggs on swedes the last 4 years and not seen any problems in the gimmers during their second winter on grass /feed

We have wintered our lowground April lambing cross ewes on Swedes for the past 4 years from end of January to a week pre-lambing and have been very pleased with the results.The biggest benefit being the ability to rest the grass fields and therefore have grass at lambing time.

Macsky · Aug 16, 2018

neilo said:
That’s the problem with rearing rams on forage diets. When you get a Winter/Spring/Summer like we’ve all had, they won’t look as good or forward as they would do in an easier year. Genetics could well be every bit as good or better though.
Of course trough fed rams just get fed the same regardless, so would stand out even more in a difficult year.

There’s possibly an argument that the genetics may take a hit aswell tho, as a hit in the first winter could switch on survival genes and off the proflificacy ones, like badly wintered hoggs that never catch up, maybe that could be passed down to a rams offspring, if he took a check?

neilo · Aug 16, 2018

Macsky said:
There’s possibly an argument that the genetics may take a hit aswell tho, as a hit in the first winter could switch on survival genes and off the proflificacy ones, like badly wintered hoggs that never catch up, maybe that could be passed down to a rams offspring, if he took a check?

Really? You can’t switch genes on and off by feeding. You might stunt an animal by severely underfeeding it, but the genetics don’t change.

Macsky · Aug 16, 2018

neilo said:
Really? You can’t switch genes on and off by feeding. You might stunt an animal by severely underfeeding it, but the genetics don’t change.

Top Tip. · Aug 17, 2018

scholland said:
We've wintered dry hoggs on swedes the last 4 years and not seen any problems in the gimmers during their second winter on grass /feed

That’s fair enough but we each learn by our own experience and my experience was different from yours,I will never forget lambing those gimmers or it would be better to say not lambing them as there was nothing you could do but lift the lambs,that was many years ago but the memory is one that stil gives me the horrors.

sheepwise · Aug 17, 2018

Top Tip. said:
That’s fair enough but we each learn by our own experience and my experience was different from yours,I will never forget lambing those gimmers or it would be better to say not lambing them as there was nothing you could do but lift the lambs,that was many years ago but the memory is one that stil gives me the horrors.

What breed were they and was it a bad winter or spring in the lead up to lambing?

Poorbuthappy · Aug 17, 2018

Macsky said:
View attachment 705760

But is that talking about a permenant switching or temporary effect of feed availability?

Edit: the phrase "some effects crossing generations " would imply it can be permenant?

neilo · Aug 17, 2018

Top Tip. said:
That’s fair enough but we each learn by our own experience and my experience was different from yours,I will never forget lambing those gimmers or it would be better to say not lambing them as there was nothing you could do but lift the lambs,that was many years ago but the memory is one that stil gives me the horrors.

I’ve been wintering all the in-lamb ewes on brassica crops for over 30 years. I can’t say i’ve Ever had an issue I could blame on them. Not enough of them, wet weather, etc, but that’s not down to the crop. It’s just another high quality feed source, as grass is in the summer, but it allows you to store summer/autumn growth to feed later, in the same way baling grass does, but with better quality.

Top Tip. · Aug 17, 2018

sheepwise said:
What breed were they and was it a bad winter or spring in the lead up to lambing?

Blackface and the ewes were fine it was only in the gimmers that I had the problem. I am not alone in this most hill flocks want their hoggs grass wintered.

Top Tip. · Aug 17, 2018

neilo said:
I’ve been wintering all the in-lamb ewes on brassica crops for over 30 years. I can’t say i’ve Ever had an issue I could blame on them. Not enough of them, wet weather, etc, but that’s not down to the crop. It’s just another high quality feed source, as grass is in the summer, but it allows you to store summer/autumn growth to feed later, in the same way baling grass does, but with better quality.

I don’t really think we are comparing like with like,a hill flock on the west coast of Scotland with a rainfall of 100 plus inches a year with what you have,it would be classed an arable farm up here.

Jim75 · Aug 17, 2018

Top Tip. said:
I don’t really think we are comparing like with like,a hill flock on the west coast of Scotland with a rainfall of 100 plus inches a year with what you have,it would be classed an arable farm up here.

Plus they talk in metres of rainfall rather than inches

Macsky · Aug 17, 2018

Poorbuthappy said:
But is that talking about a permenant switching or temporary effect of feed availability?

Edit: the phrase "some effects crossing generations " would imply it can be permenant?

Permanent possibly, I remember hearing/reading a large scale study that was done in NZ on the lifetime production of ewes v their wintering as hoggs, basically those that were wintered the best went in to be the most productive, I’m sorry I can’t find it anywhere tho.

neilo · Aug 17, 2018

Top Tip. said:
Blackface and the ewes were fine it was only in the gimmers that I had the problem. I am not alone in this most hill flocks want their hoggs grass wintered.

Having done so at times in the past, I would want my hoggs grass wintered if I could too, but only because abundant clean grazing on ryegrass leys is better feed than any roots. Unfortunately I don’t have access to that, so not an option.

neilo · Aug 17, 2018

Top Tip. said:
I don’t really think we are comparing like with like,a hill flock on the west coast of Scotland with a rainfall of 100 plus inches a year with what you have,it would be classed an arable farm up here.

Do you have access to lots of winter grass? Plenty of sheep wintered on swedes in upland Wales, where they would have similar rainfall. Innovis’s place would be one, in between the wind turbines.

Anyone at Logie Durno sale?

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page