Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.

Blaithin · Oct 15, 2018

My experience with Aussie farmers is mixed.

I’ve never met a population that as a whole seems to dislike and have such low disregard of animal life as Australians. More so wildlife and animals they deem pests vs their livestock. There is also a culture shock based on how Australian farms, especially livestock, are managed vs “the rest of the world”. Coming from a country where hands on management is a requirement of stockmanship, the only thing you can alter is how involved, but involved you must be, Australian stockmanship almost seems like negligence. I was around the stations though, not arable farms.

I feel confident in saying that if there was an equal population of Australian farmers here (Or American, or Canadian, or Kiwi, etc) they would also come off as moaners scared of trying new things and stuck in their own ruts.

Our ruts might all be different, but they’re still there.

There are enough Australians on my social media feed to know that environmental protection and the dislike of promoting tree growth is not only a UK thing

Farmer Roy · Oct 15, 2018

Blaithin said:
My experience with Aussie farmers is mixed.

I’ve never met a population that as a whole seems to dislike and have such low disregard of animal life as Australians. More so wildlife and animals they deem pests vs their livestock. There is also a culture shock based on how Australian farms, especially livestock, are managed vs “the rest of the world”. Coming from a country where hands on management is a requirement of stockmanship, the only thing you can alter is how involved, but involved you must be, Australian stockmanship almost seems like negligence. I was around the stations though, not arable farms.

I feel confident in saying that if there was an equal population of Australian farmers here (Or American, or Canadian, or Kiwi, etc) they would also come off as moaners scared of trying new things and stuck in their own ruts.

Our ruts might all be different, but they’re still there.

There are enough Australians on my social media feed to know that environmental protection and the dislike of promoting tree growth is not only a UK thing

Oh yes, I agree with a lot of that

A lot of Australians are racist redneck bogan ignorant pansies
The worst of those can be found in rural areas
The old motto of Australian agriculture was " if it moves shoot it, if it doesn't then cut it down "
There are many aspects of my countries people, politics & "culture" that disgust & repulse me. I don't tend to socialise much with farmers ( apart from ones involved in regenerative Ag ) because I am sick & bored of the conversations
This country is FAR from perfect. Thankfully, agriculture is slowly changing & the old rape & pillage dinosaurs are reducing in numbers & farmers do seem to be taking the initiative in many environmental issues.
However, my point was that it seems as if all the interesting, innovative, enthusiastic agricultural thinking now comes out of North & South America, Africa, NZ & Australia, very little from the Old World
From a TFFland point of view, it doesn't seem to exist at all . . .

Anyway, I've got a severe case of "icouldgiveaf**kitis" about life in general at the moment, the sooner the human race is obliterated in a fiery furnace of its own making, the better, as far as I'm concerned

CornishTone · Oct 15, 2018

Makes you happy to be alive doesn’t it?!?![emoji57]

Farmer Roy · Oct 15, 2018

When you turn 50, the Federal Government send you a free bowel cancer test kit. I got mine 2 years ago & I think they got fed up with sending me reminders
Why bother ?
We are all only just waiting around to die anyway, why prolong the tedium ?

CornishTone · Oct 15, 2018

Blaithin said:
My experience with Aussie farmers is mixed.

I’ve never met a population that as a whole seems to dislike and have such low disregard of animal life as Australians. More so wildlife and animals they deem pests vs their livestock. There is also a culture shock based on how Australian farms, especially livestock, are managed vs “the rest of the world”. Coming from a country where hands on management is a requirement of stockmanship, the only thing you can alter is how involved, but involved you must be, Australian stockmanship almost seems like negligence. I was around the stations though, not arable farms.

I feel confident in saying that if there was an equal population of Australian farmers here (Or American, or Canadian, or Kiwi, etc) they would also come off as moaners scared of trying new things and stuck in their own ruts.

Our ruts might all be different, but they’re still there.

There are enough Australians on my social media feed to know that environmental protection and the dislike of promoting tree growth is not only a UK thing

I do agree with some of that. I’ve been shooting with work colleagues and, I think I’ve told the tale before, they came across a family of Emus (1 adult and 8-10 chicks) and wiped the lot of them out... slowly with poorly aimed shots. I’ve seen them gut shoot roo’s and just leave them to die. I wouldn’t even do that to a rabbit and did take the rifle off one of them and finish the job off with a the appropriate amount of name calling!

I think with livestock there is a level of pragmatism that means they would rather let nature take its course than intervene, thus leaving more hardy genes. I Kiwi friend of mine back home is pretty bloody ruthless with his sheep. Any problems with feet, lambing etc and they go as soon as it practical. I’m not as livestock savvy so tend not to get involved in your livestock related discussions but that’s the impression I get. Margins are tight here so everything is to stand on its own 4 feet to some extent.

Blaithin · Oct 15, 2018

CornishTone said:
I do agree with some of that. I’ve been shooting with work colleagues and, I think I’ve told the tale before, they came across a family of Emus (1 adult and 8-10 chicks) and wiped the lot of them out... slowly with poorly aimed shots. I’ve seen them gut shoot roo’s and just leave them to die. I wouldn’t even do that to a rabbit and did take the rifle off one of them and finish the job off with a the appropriate amount of name calling!

I think with livestock there is a level of pragmatism that means they would rather let nature take its course than intervene, thus leaving more hardy genes. I Kiwi friend of mine back home is pretty bloody ruthless with his sheep. Any problems with feet, lambing etc and they go as soon as it practical. I’m not as livestock savvy so tend not to get involved in your livestock related discussions but that’s the impression I get. Margins are tight here so everything is to stand on its own 4 feet to some extent.

I understand their livestock management. On places the size of those stations with herds that size, why not take a hands off approach whenever you can.

Just in comparison to what’s done here it seems almost like abandonment. We have to feed our cattle in winter. We usually have to check them during calving due to weather and predators.

When you slide the standards of animal care here over to station herds...

We were bringing a calving herd in to a closer two sections once when I was there. A cow dropped her calf in the holding area while we were waiting out the heat of the day. Conveniently there was a massive crocodile living in the dam (this whole scenario is about as far away from Canadian as possible) I convinced the bf of the time we couldn’t leave the calf and it’s mom on the side of the dam, I’ve seen African documentaries, as soon as the herd leaves the giant dragon would come out and eat the calf

Plus the herd would be miles away so what’s she going to do? So that thing rode on my lap for hours in scorching temps until we got where we were going. Then we tried to get the moms attention and of course the calf was following the quad around so I started pushing it out in the open. I got yelled at for touching it, the mom won’t accept it if it smells like me...

Besides that bit of backwoods farmer illogic, would have been a bit late at that point.

The next day we put pour on on the lot of them and released them into the wide open space. Mom took off without a look back at the calf. Calf was kicked out of the corral and nobody ever went back to check on it.

I can’t think of one farmer here that would EVER release a calf and not check to make sure it mothered up at some point. Even when they aren’t worth much, they’re worth more than just wandering into the scrub to die. When cows are hauled across the province to different pastures and the calves come along on other trucks, you check them to make sure they all pair up.

To me, that is neglect. There’s no harm to keep that cow in a smaller space to make sure baby has its legs and she’s waiting for it. There’s no harm going to check it even had a mom after that and didn’t starve to death. There’s survival of the fittest and then there’s animals dying because you interrupted things with your handling. There are large pastures and herds here that sometimes don’t get looked at for weeks. Even if you check weekly you don’t always see all the animals. Compared to the UK this is probably seen as neglectful but it’s just a fact of the space, much like Aus. But to have an animal in a working area and release it... that’s different.

Being lazy or just doing something because that’s how it’s always been done is not an excuse for situations like that one. Neither is the size of the operation and the number of animals.

Deerefarmer · Oct 15, 2018

Blaithin said:
I understand their livestock management. On places the size of those stations with herds that size, why not take a hands off approach whenever you can.

Just in comparison to what’s done here it seems almost like abandonment. We have to feed our cattle in winter. We usually have to check them during calving due to weather and predators.

When you slide the standards of animal care here over to station herds...

We were bringing a calving herd in to a closer two sections once when I was there. A cow dropped her calf in the holding area while we were waiting out the heat of the day. Conveniently there was a massive crocodile living in the dam (this whole scenario is about as far away from Canadian as possible) I convinced the bf of the time we couldn’t leave the calf and it’s mom on the side of the dam, I’ve seen African documentaries, as soon as the herd leaves the giant dragon would come out and eat the calf Plus the herd would be miles away so what’s she going to do? So that thing rode on my lap for hours in scorching temps until we got where we were going. Then we tried to get the moms attention and of course the calf was following the quad around so I started pushing it out in the open. I got yelled at for touching it, the mom won’t accept it if it smells like me...

Besides that bit of backwoods farmer illogic, would have been a bit late at that point.

The next day we put pour on on the lot of them and released them into the wide open space. Mom took off without a look back at the calf. Calf was kicked out of the corral and nobody ever went back to check on it.

I can’t think of one farmer here that would EVER release a calf and not check to make sure it mothered up at some point. Even when they aren’t worth much, they’re worth more than just wandering into the scrub to die. When cows are hauled across the province to different pastures and the calves come along on other trucks, you check them to make sure they all pair up.

To me, that is neglect. There’s no harm to keep that cow in a smaller space to make sure baby has its legs and she’s waiting for it. There’s no harm going to check it even had a mom after that and didn’t starve to death. There’s survival of the fittest and then there’s animals dying because you interrupted things with your handling. There are large pastures and herds here that sometimes don’t get looked at for weeks. Even if you check weekly you don’t always see all the animals. Compared to the UK this is probably seen as neglectful but it’s just a fact of the space, much like Aus. But to have an animal in a working area and release it... that’s different.

Being lazy or just doing something because that’s how it’s always been done is not an excuse for situations like that one. Neither is the size of the operation and the number of animals.

Exactly.
Right now I'm having a hard time biting my tongue and not commenting on the who is watching thread concerning the douchebag herding his cows up the street with a swish whip

I've milked and managed a dairy herd long enough to know if a cow isn't lame that's not neccessary
And we wonder why the general public is anti farming

and don't want to consume our products?!
I know I'm a bit of a softie but can't stand to see an animal being mistreated

Ukjay · Oct 15, 2018

Farmer Roy said:
We need a bigger range on our awesomonometer to truly measure the total awesomeness

View attachment 727562

I bet you won't find many awesomonometers in the U.K.
They'd have nothing to measure, the miserable bunch

Oi - we're not all miserable f**kers thank you

Kiwi Pete · Oct 15, 2018

Deerefarmer said:
Exactly.
Right now I'm having a hard time biting my tongue and not commenting on the who is watching thread concerning the douchebag herding his cows up the street with a swish whip
I've milked and managed a dairy herd long enough to know if a cow isn't lame that's not neccessary
And we wonder why the general public is anti farming and don't want to consume our products?!
I know I'm a bit of a softie but can't stand to see an animal being mistreated

"Ah, but you haven't mismanaged a herd, so you don't know"

There is a good enough reason to oppose the deregulation of agriculture, in one picture.
If it wasn't written in a manual somewhere, some people wouldn't have a f**king clue..

Not the cow's fault, 99.6% of lameness in dairy cattle is because of people... and it doesn't take much steam under the lid to work out why.

Ukjay · Oct 15, 2018

Deerefarmer said:
Exactly.
Right now I'm having a hard time biting my tongue and not commenting on the who is watching thread concerning the douchebag herding his cows up the street with a swish whip
I've milked and managed a dairy herd long enough to know if a cow isn't lame that's not neccessary
And we wonder why the general public is anti farming and don't want to consume our products?!
I know I'm a bit of a softie but can't stand to see an animal being mistreated

I think the general majority of the public do support farmers and can see the pressures involved, but as they are not the ones all up your arse complaing to the news etc - it brings the viewpoint that the public do not like farmers imho.

Generally - the ones whom create more visible actions, create a feeling of something different to reality. Minorities are quite good at being heard!

cows sh#t me to tears · Oct 15, 2018

Quite frankly, I don't understand the fascination with having to be "liked" . This is the real world not fùcktard social media

I couldn't give a stuff who likes me or not, makes no difference to what I have to do everyday

. I do it because I enjoy it

well, most of the time anyway

. Water determinations came out today. Vic Murray got 2% increase, Vic goulburn got 3% increase.

Apparently we went backwards by 5%

so I'm not sure if that means we are -5% atm

this system is so fùcked up you have to laugh or else youd put a bullet in your head

Ukjay · Oct 15, 2018

Unfortunatley this "Like" thing is creeping into professional emails now. @ work, sent email about something - then get a liked your email Pop Up.
What; I thought I was at work. So from someone who does not use Faceache etc as much as it is supposed to be used (allegedly) - this is a strange one to me, finding this creeping into the workplace. :scratchhead:

Kiwi Pete · Oct 15, 2018

I will like that post just to confuse you

Strangely the more unlikeable stuff I post, the more alerts I have when I look at my phone in the morning - no idea how that works

Ukjay · Oct 15, 2018

I admit - I get confused as soon as I wake these days!

The world is getting more disfunctional year by year, and yet; as the world drives deeper into lower respect for each other and seemingly wish to stick one in the back wherever possible for ones own gain - we see a worldwide use of false emotional emocons, false likes on posts / emails when they wouldn't give you the time of day if they met you in the street.

I just do not get it :scratchhead:

Kiwi Pete · Oct 15, 2018

Ukjay said:
I admit - I get confused as soon as I wake these days!

The world is getting more disfunctional year by year, and yet; as the world drives deeper into lower respect for each other and seemingly wish to stick one in the back wherever possible for ones own gain - we see a worldwide use of false emotional emocons, false likes on posts / emails when they wouldn't give you the time of day if they met you in the street.

I just do not get it

Man made solutions for manmade issues

Just like that tool whipping his cows from the tractor seat, there is very little of society that isn't merely popular fiction these days.... and thus fiction is increasingly popular, reality is too hard for the pinkies and morons of the world to handle....

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 15, 2018

unlacedgecko said:
“Australia has a harsh and varied climate and many areas were suffering from the ravages of drought during my visit. The resilience and upbeat attitude of Australian stockmen shone through the sometimes gloomy atmosphere. The harsh realities of economics and climate have created a very progressive, ruthless business culture.”

A paragraph from Charley Walker”s Nuffield Scholar Report. He visited Australia is 2007.

In anyone hasn’t read the report it’s available here, and is extremely interesting. http://nuffieldinternational.org/live/Report/1253801058C_H_Walker_Nuffield_Report_read_only

An interesting read, thanks.

The stand out bits for me include:

In the UK, the widespread use of terminal sire breeds in maternal lines and excessive selection for terminal traits in maternal breeds has required increased inputs which often outweigh the increase in output achieved

The adaptation of wild animals to their environment is exceptional; nature prevents weakness from propagating weakness by the crude but ruthlessly effective method of natural selection

In New Zealand I repeatedly witnessed cattle growth rates of over 1.5kg from grass/clover pastures with no supplementation

Easily managed or low input livestock systems are sometimes charged with being of poor welfare. As in all aspects of livestock production, the welfare of the animals relates more to the genetics and management than it does to the system itself. When well run, these systems are in fact of higher welfare as they allow stock to express more of their natural behaviour

All things many TFF regulars won't/can't understand

Farmer Roy · Oct 15, 2018

I don't know how sheep survived prior to shepherds having to lamb them 24/7 . . .

Kiwi Pete · Oct 15, 2018

Blaithin said:
I would be pleased I got a compliment.

Geez you’re a snobby lot if you’re going to start being picky about which words are used for compliments.

If it’s a positive word with a positive connotation then why would I be fickle enough to demand a different word or phrase be used?

fudgeing men, over thinking even simple things like compliments and words!

Precisely.
Although if I use the word "interesting" then it is the opposite of a compliment, likewise "sophisticated"....

First one = a very brave departure
Second one = terribly overcomplicated

But I do use "that's nice" as an alternative to "well, f**k off, then" - it isn't mixed messages if I know what I meant....

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 15, 2018

Farmer Roy said:
that's not what I see on TFF
all I see in the UK is moaning miserable people, soil compaction, over tillage, a very anti environment stance, constant fear panic & uncertainty about the future & peoples long term plans to sell land for housing estates . . .

spreading heaps of muck doesn't equal healthy soils when you are constantly driving all over them
lots of regulations & farm assurance doesn't equal healthy animals
needing your hand held every moment doesn't equal happy people
needing subs to remain or for lambs to be worth twice what they are doesn't equal a healthy financial position

healthy soils ? how many fungicides, insecticides, fertilisers & wheel tracks do you all take for granted ?
healthy animals ? how many vet bills, antibiotics, assisted lambings etc are required? If they were healthy that would be minimal

healthy finances ? how many insecure scared little threads are here about Brexit, subs, commodity prices, input prices ? Don't sound very financially secure to me

happy people ? haha - fudge me. TFF takes the cake for moaning whinging whining we need more we hate the public dog walkers townies horses cyclists pikeys the local council fancy food coffee shops big farms chickens arable farmers young people contractors land rovers landlords foreigners anyone who isn't a traditional small mixed farmer is just looked down upon with derision
happy ? I certainly hope TFF ISNT indicative of the state of UK agriculture, cos its a pretty miserable depressing bloody place . . .

the New World was raped & plundered & exploited without a care in the world, initially by the European colonial overlords, then by their descendants with the same Old World mindset for many years, creating many environmental & social disasters & plant, animal & ecosystem extinctions
however, if you want to find anything interesting or enthusiastic about agriculture progressing forward in the 21st C, "new" ways of thinking, actually playing a leading role in turning around environmental degradation & climate change, not just being "sustainable" ( whatever that means - could be just sustaining things the way they are, as bad as that may be ) but actually being regenerative, improving both the environment & the bottom line, you really need to look at the New World. New World ( North & South Americas, Africa & Oceania ) agriculture appears very proactive, searching, sharing & open with information, research, ideas, recognising the failures of the past & not forgetting those lessons. Im not saying it is all perfect ( far from it, there are many negative people & systems as well ) but there appears a rising groundswell of questioning established paradigms & level of enthusiasm & positivity about the future. Certainly a lot of really interesting stuff. In contrast, the Old World ( Euro / UK ) seems much more insular & defensive, more intent on maintain some idealised status quo of the 1950's or whenever they perceive the "Golden Age" of farming to be . . .

getting back to the three legged pot analogy, I cant see too many stable ones in TFFland, there seems to be a lot of wobbly ones with people scared of falling out

Subtle

Now tell us what you REALLY think and don't hold back

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 15, 2018

Agrispeed said:
Randomly, to strangers.

unlacedgecko said:
Try it. Most women love compliments. Telling the right kind of woman she smells good really appeals to her primal urges

I've done that a few times. You get very polarised reactions.

Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.

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