Farmer Roy's Random Thoughts - I never said it was easy.

[Kiwi Pete]

I don't know how sheep survived prior to shepherds having to lamb them 24/7 . . .

I think it's cute, stepping in to manage something that is managing itself; "if it weren't for those meddling kids" it probably wouldn't have been born in the first place, if it came from such weak stock?

Again, it's this synthetic concept, when things aren't working for us, we must work for them, instead.
I guess it is more difficult to envisage "the mob" as one big thing, especially herd animals (which are each a community of millions of other things) if you haven't grown up thinking that way about them?

In livestock farming context, my job isn't to play vets and nurses, but to play predator; I can improve the whole by removing the weak and slow, but I will only do the opposite by altering their environment to suit them.
"Shepherd" means I "herd the sheep together" not play "lets keep pets alive by reducing selection pressure as much as I can" or else I'll join the legions who can't sell a lamb for more than what it costs.

However, it is a generational thing, I am exceptionally fortunate that I have access to the right genetics for that job, people paid with their own lives to get us to this point..... why would I knowingly/willingly undo their good work?

 

[unlacedgecko]

I think it's cute, stepping in to manage something that is managing itself; "if it weren't for those meddling kids" it probably wouldn't have been born in the first place, if it came from such weak stock?

Again, it's this synthetic concept, when things aren't working for us, we must work for them, instead.
I guess it is more difficult to envisage "the mob" as one big thing, especially herd animals (which are each a community of millions of other things) if you haven't grown up thinking that way about them?

In livestock farming context, my job isn't to play vets and nurses, but to play predator; I can improve the whole by removing the weak and slow, but I will only do the opposite by altering their environment to suit them.
"Shepherd" means I "herd the sheep together" not play "lets keep pets alive by reducing selection pressure as much as I can" or else I'll join the legions who can't sell a lamb for more than what it costs.

However, it is a generational thing, I am exceptionally fortunate that I have access to the right genetics for that job, people paid with their own lives to get us to this point..... why would I knowingly/willingly undo their good work?

But those type of genetics aren’t solely found south of the equator.

There is such a huge pool of genetic potential in the UK. They just need to be managed in a way to select the right ones for the task.

 

[Ukjay]

I don't know how sheep survived prior to shepherds having to lamb them 24/7 . . .

Mother nature selected the fit ones...

But one would hypothesize that today that is somehow deemed too cruel, but like said - if one looks close at nature with eyes wide open, it selects the fittest daily..

 

[Ukjay]

I've done that a few times. You get very polarised reactions.

Or get slapped in court for sexual harassment, so not worth the risk!!

 

[unlacedgecko]

Mother nature selected the fit ones...

But one would hypothesize that today that is somehow deemed too cruel, but like said - if one looks close at nature with eyes wide open, it selects the fittest daily..

Nature isn’t cruel, merely calloused.

 

[Ukjay]

Nature isn’t cruel, merely calloused.

I didn't say is was.

Ironically, lots of people love dolphins - but few people are aware of how they also kill the young of others.. lovely cuddly dolphins hey

 

[Kiwi Pete]

But those type of genetics aren’t solely found south of the equator.

There is such a huge pool of genetic potential in the UK. They just need to be managed in a way to select the right ones for the task.

Oh, definitely!

It is difficult to find really bad genetics here, it is purely selection pressure outside of the farmer and the finances.
But a glance at our dairy boom has showed that harsh selection pressure soon suffers when there is a price hike at the farmgate, fairly easy to extrapolate that to the sheep industry with late lamb prices so high?

Dogs will be eating bought food when they are designed to eat slow sheep??

 

[unlacedgecko]

Oh, definitely!

It is difficult to find really bad genetics here, it is purely selection pressure outside of the farmer and the finances.
But a glance at our dairy boom has showed that harsh selection pressure soon suffers when there is a price hike at the farmgate, fairly easy to extrapolate that to the sheep industry with late lamb prices so high?

Dogs will be eating bought food when they are designed to eat slow sheep??

Nothing wrong with feeding dogs bought food. But people feeding sheep bought food and lambing ewes which should be culled will look silly when prices drop...

 

[Bury the Trash]

Anyway Harry and Meghan are in Sydney and she has got a bun in the oven as well

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Mother nature selected the fit ones...

But one would hypothesize that today that is somehow deemed too cruel, but like said - if one looks close at nature with eyes wide open, it selects the fittest daily..

Yes, but people themselves haven't been pressured at all and even then quite wrongly - war for example, culling some of the very best

"Benefits" - oxymoron if ever there was..

So by enabling those who cannot even grow themselves a row of carrots, to eat plenty of food 3+× daily.... why do farmers have much right to grumble about "them"?
Smack some fert on, drench the ewes, let's feed the world... it isn't helping... we just get more big idiots

 

[Bury the Trash]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/15/yeme...e-in-100-years-as-civil-war-rages-on-8038202/

 

[unlacedgecko]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/15/yeme...e-in-100-years-as-civil-war-rages-on-8038202/

Disgusting that children starve in 2018.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

I've done that a few times. You get very polarised reactions.

North and South?

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Oh, definitely!

It is difficult to find really bad genetics here, it is purely selection pressure outside of the farmer and the finances.
But a glance at our dairy boom has showed that harsh selection pressure soon suffers when there is a price hike at the farmgate, fairly easy to extrapolate that to the sheep industry with late lamb prices so high?

Dogs will be eating bought food when they are designed to eat slow sheep??

Given the "dairy boom" as I see it (from the mid 90's on) I saw two basic options 1, continue much along the lines of ther 70's and 80's or 2, repeat the mistakes of Grandad, cira 1953-56.

 

[hendrebc]

But those type of genetics aren’t solely found south of the equator.

There is such a huge pool of genetic potential in the UK. They just need to be managed in a way to select the right ones for the task.

Most flocks and herds in the UK have gone so far in the direction of mollycoddling that it will take a long time to be able to bring them back to the standard they should be at though. I commented on a thread somewere else about it a couple of days ago but can't be arsed typing it all out again
I remember reading what easyram1 said that global ovine said to him about breeding his typical UK Suffolk flock to kiwi standards. It will take 10 years and I don't think you have that long. I
Hes right it is taking that long here with the sheep (with a flock thst wasn't that bad really especially compared to some) and it will take even longer with the cattle. I'm glad I started when I did I've got quite a head start on most
But in reality it never should have gotten to that state in the first place

 

[hendrebc]

Found it

I agree thst culling needs to be done but it isn't always as simple as culling everything you don't like. It depends how many borderline keepers you have and how you would replace them if you did get rid of them. If you have enough heifers or ewe lambs to replace the borderline keepers then it's better to get rid. (And remember there is no guarantee that the ewe lambs or heifers will be any better in the end) If you have to buy in to replace them then id rather keep my own borderline ones to keep numbers up and breed them to a terminal sire because at least I know what my own stock are capable of. If you buy in then who knows what they can do. I know my own cows and ewes can give birth by themselves without help and get on with it. That's priority number one for me. Even if some of them do need some feet trimming or have dirty tails or aren't the best looking/performing ones. I almost have enough ewe lambs coming through to start culling the troublesome ewes. I think I will have enough heifers this time so all the cows I don't like will be going this year or next. The ones I don't like have been going to a terminal sire and replacements not kept from them and being very careful with choosing bulls and rams for a long time now but it takes time to get stock to were you want them. If I'd gone out and culled everything I didn't like I think I would only have had 25% of my cows left and probably half my ewes or more would have gone. Most British flocks and herds would be in a similar state when they have been bred to look good and nothing else like ours was. Breeding what you want takes time and not everyone can afford to go out and replace them with exactly what you want. Exactly what you want isn't easy or sometimes impossible to find too. And even then they can disappoint after you spent all that money on them
Better the devil you know and all that

 

[unlacedgecko]

Most flocks and herds in the UK have gone so far in the direction of mollycoddling that it will take a long time to be able to bring them back to the standard they should be at though. I commented on a thread somewere else about it a couple of days ago but can't be arsed typing it all out again
I remember reading what easyram1 said that global ovine said to him about breeding his typical UK Suffolk flock to kiwi standards. It will take 10 years and I don't think you have that long. I
Hes right it is taking that long here with the sheep (with a flock thst wasn't that bad really especially compared to some) and it will take even longer with the cattle. I'm glad I started when I did I've got quite a head start on most
But in reality it never should have gotten to that state in the first place

I think the biggest challenge in the UK would be having large enough numbers under control to cull them properly.

 

[hendrebc]

I think the biggest challenge in the UK would be having large enough numbers under control to cull them properly.

That's the problem i have here. You don't realise how many problem sheep and cows there are until you start marking them down then you have to prioritize what you need to improve first and foremost (lambing and calving on their own and maternal ability and fertility amd milk firsr here and holding body condition in shitty wet winters) before starting on other things like feet and dirty tails and twinning as well as a load of other things that come under consideration too.

 

[Ukjay]

From a learning point of view - are there enough good genetics around to start a small flock of not your run of the mill breeds?

 

[Farmer Roy]

Subtle

Now tell us what you REALLY think and don't hold back

nah, im conscious of holding back & not going full throttle, in case I offend anyone . . .