I haven’t been aggressive yet and hence I am not naming dealer nor manufacturer. How many times should I be without a tractor whilst it’s continually fixed. I have no issue with the dealer just fed up having continual break downs and lost time, which comes at my expense. Once warranty is up what do I do with the repairs?
Tractor complaint
- Thread starter Speyside
- Start date
Dave W
Member
- Location
- chesterfield
You've been fairly aggressive on here quoting health and safety and unfit for purpose etc. We can only assume that's how you will approach the dealer. You have to work with these people not against them
Just frustrated as they’ve palmed me off for the last 4 days. Local dealer has been out of the country this week so had to liaise straight with manufacturer. I’ve had good conversations with the territory rep, but got a responsw from the uk manager suggesting that they were going to find the route cause and suggested it was operator error. That has seriously annoyed me!!
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
What you should expect is a reliable tractor and good service backup. What you get is often at variance with expectations. Such is life. How both parties now handle it is what is currently important. If they have a substitute tractor while yours is in for investigation and repair, I'm sure they will happily give you one. But if they don't have one, well that's just tough luck, because they certainly are not obliged to.
Again, in the short term, a replacement will be subject to availability and negotiation. If you make an exceptional arse of yourself, as some farmers tend to when stressed, then don't expect too much cooperation back from their side. Remember that you are dealing with 'people' and while I have no idea who your dealer is, most people will try their best for people who treat them with respect and decency. Disrespect and a totally uncooperative attitude may well be reciprocated. It's just human nature.
On the other hand for all I know, your dealer may be a completely useless sh!t all round, but you would know one way or another already, having dealt with them for decades.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Exactly! It's a two way thing. People dealing reasonably with each other. Remember that your [not yours Dave] dealer wants nothing better than for your tractor to be reliable and for you to remain a happy customer for the long term. That calls for mutual respect and understanding and while you need to be somewhat assertive, do it in a pleasant non-confrontational way for best results.
Guys I totally agree and if I’ve came across as aggressive I apologise but I spoke with the territory manager tonight and had a good constructive 2 way conversation. However I don’t believe that Overall the manufacturer is intending standing good for the repairs or replacement. I’ve tried the nice approach over the last 4 days, it doesn’t seem to be working that well, and just want to know my consumer rights hence I’m on here asking for advice....
Dave W
Member
- Location
- chesterfield
Taking clues from that post I'm going to surmise it's one of the smaller brands?
I'm only saying that as I don't think you'd get to liaise directly with the uk manager of MF, Deere, new Holland etc... over one tractor.
As such the dealer is likely to be smaller and the whole brand may not have the infrastructure to deal with things as you'd like
Purchased at a year old 80 hours?
Is previous owners detail on the log book? If so suggest you contact them and find out why they disposed of such a low hour machine.
As a business you don’t have the same level of rights as a consumer, however you may be able to get advice from a national body if you are a member and they (or insurer) may have a legal helpline you can consult.
Write to the dealership (phoning doesn’t matter put it in writing) keep dates copies and proof of posting of all correspondence. Plenty of template letters to follow online.
Good luck
Is previous owners detail on the log book? If so suggest you contact them and find out why they disposed of such a low hour machine.
As a business you don’t have the same level of rights as a consumer, however you may be able to get advice from a national body if you are a member and they (or insurer) may have a legal helpline you can consult.
Write to the dealership (phoning doesn’t matter put it in writing) keep dates copies and proof of posting of all correspondence. Plenty of template letters to follow online.
Good luck
I’m not wanting to name and shame as it’s unfair at this stage and I’d see that as a last resort. I’ve had good relationship with dealer over the years but never had issues like this before.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Manufacturer's reps are not always the best people to deal with customers and, indeed, some will point blank refuse direct contact with customers. I know that when I took an area rep out on farm visits he was totally out of his depth with talking to farmers. He ended up as UK sales manager before a somewhat hasty departure after some years. While being UK sales manager he seemed to think it was beneath him to even talk to dealer staff, and would insist on using email on even the most urgent of issues. So maybe be a bit appreciative that the manufacturer's representative even talks to you.
The dealer is your man. It can't be helped that he isn't there this week but you can get the ball rolling by getting the tractor in to be investigated. Every lost day is your loss, remember that, not theirs. Your priority should be to get back to your work, unless your work is not that important to you. Not bothering at this stage with the blame game.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
You have very little 'consumer rights'. For one thing, you are not what is considered to be a 'consumer'. You are an industrial business conducting a business to business transaction. It is, at the end of the day, your tractor, not theirs or the manufacturer's. It is out of its warranty period and you have obviously not bought an extended warranty, so any help you get from either manufacturer/importer or the dealer will be on a 'goodwill' basis.
That, I'm afraid is the bottom line. I've had my share of such issues, the most serious was with a MF595 back in '77 '78 and '79 when the tractor was split four times for different transmission issues. All started out of the one year warranty and the dealer and manufacturer did not contribute a farthing to help. It was sold with only 1050 hours on the clock and I know the dealer hired it out for a short while before resale and it again needed splitting, this time at the dealer's expense, because its auxiliary pump gave out. Before that is was PTO clutch, main clutch cover, Multi-power and lord knows. After he sold it on it had many new head gaskets, oh and it also had a power steering repair and new exhaust and an injector pump repair in the two years it was out of warranty.
I changed it for an MF590 4wd only because the MF dealer was the only one who would even consider taking a 595 back in part exchange at any price. That was a pile of poo too and I could write a book about that one. In the meantime I'd also bought a Same and a J Deere and could compare the massive improvement in reliability and lower running costs these gave me. After five years and 3500 of grief, MF were gone and I didn't even consider another until the 3000 series came out in 1986 but didn't actually buy one until 2004. It and another since, both here today, have been very reliable indeed, touch wood.
MF and the dealer [who years later went very big then bankrupt] lost ten new tractors when I was at the peak of my career during that time, when I bought various other Same, New Holland and John Deere models and had very few problems with any of them. No skin off my nose that they lost me and those sales between 1979 and 2004. I only gained.
So if your dealer and your importer/tractor brand is serious about their business, there's a lesson in there for them I'm sure. On the other hand they may be as completely arrogant as MF and Willis Bros were with me. Its not just tractors they lost from me, I bought virtually everything from them, including slurry stores, implements and Subaru pickup even. They lost me for many years and even 'banned' me for buying another brand early on.
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So machine is 28 months old and you have warranty until 36 months of age in writing? 24months from point of purchase? Is warranty manufacturer, dealer, 3rd party?
What documentation do you have? Read it!
I fear you must be totally sick of this machine and the associated downtime, however if it is still in warranty let them have another go - you want to get it right - it`s no good out of action and if they`re not offering to replace it with a good `un (which they really should do in all decency!) you`ll just have to let them sort it . Hopefully if it comes back sorted and behaves itself for a while you may be able to consider chopping it in for another brand before it does run out of warranty (finances permitting!)
I like the idea of trying to find out about it`s previous 80 hours.
BEST OF LUCK!!
No documentation. Just dealers word. Which I appreciate means nothing now. It would be his word against mine. I am half resigned to having to get the tractor repaired and sold off as I will not have it back on farm now after this serious breakdown. A tractor at 1000 hours and 35 months old shouldn’t have the number of faults. I have played the brand loyalty card, which after their response this evening counts for nothing. Looks like I’ll have to vote with my feet whilst voicing discontent should they not manage something. I don’t want to fall out with dealer or manufacturer either.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
It does sound as if it could still be under warranty?
Get it in there to be repaired. It has to be repaired one way or another whatever eventually happens so no point delaying it. I hope that parts are readily available. The dealership boss, who happens to be away on holiday this week is the man you need to talk to, not the manufacturer's/importer's rep. In the meantime the ball needs to start rolling or you won't be sorted before Christmas, because many manufacturers close down for weeks over Christmas and that includes their parts departments.
Thanks guys appreciate everyone opinions. The dealership boss is back tomorrow and will speak to him. My personal feeling was that the manufacturers rep wanted to help but seems his hands are tied, which I understand how it works. Whatever happens I will have to get rid of the tractor as it seems like a bad un.
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
You will still need it repaired, as you appreciate. Whether you lose confidence in both dealer and tractor is up to you. What tractor model is it? Is it a big seller and from one of the most reputable big manufacturers? If from CNH. AGCO, or Deere, possibly Claas, I would expect a reasonable response and contribution at least. I've seen manufacturers throw a very high percentage of parts costs, the dealer give a very low hourly rate, plus the manufacturer throw thousands towards a new model to keep a customer like you happy before now. Smaller brands and dealers may not have the resources to even be able to do that I'm afraid. Back in the 1970's when I had my 595, even MF didn't have the resources as they were on their knees and just about staving off bankruptcy. Times have changed and so have the people. Economics have not.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Well, I am very surprised to read some of the comments above. The following page might be helpful to the OP but if I was him, I would waste no time in going to see a solicitor as quickly s possible. He is the person best qualified to advise you of your rights. No need to rush to law but it is always wise to know what ammunition you hold if you do have to go to war! Solicitors have professional indemnity insurance so if they get it wrong, you can sue 'em. You won't be able to do that if you get bad advice here.
http://www.fsblegalinfo.org.uk/Fact.../BUSINESS TO BUSINESS - SALE OF GOODS LAW.pdf
http://www.fsblegalinfo.org.uk/Fact.../BUSINESS TO BUSINESS - SALE OF GOODS LAW.pdf
wasted years
Member
- Location
- Cumbrian born and bread
If it was my tractor I would offer to go to the dealership and help them split it so i could see for myself what is up inside.
You say it has had new clutch packs and soon after won't stop going forward and previous to that it didn't feel right suggests to me it was assembled wrong.
Trust your instincts, your likely right.
Mechanics and dealers are prone to making up stories to deflect blame and there is little you can do about it without being there to see for yourself.
You might as well use cheap scrap like me and put up with it if paying for good stuff is no better.
You say it has had new clutch packs and soon after won't stop going forward and previous to that it didn't feel right suggests to me it was assembled wrong.
Trust your instincts, your likely right.
Mechanics and dealers are prone to making up stories to deflect blame and there is little you can do about it without being there to see for yourself.
You might as well use cheap scrap like me and put up with it if paying for good stuff is no better.
If your tractor won't stop then I suggest your clutch pack has gone again with warped plates causing it to bind. Having two clutch packs to go in a short period of time is either down to low pressure lube problem or riding the clutch which many a farmer tell me they don' do to which we can now prove they have because on many new transmissions it will throw up a error code..
To give an example we put a new clutch pack in a Massey 4355 recently which only lasted 90 hours.
Farmer very unhappy as you can imagine and I took the its warranty speech to heart before pulling it apart. On recovery of the tractor I noticed the air seat had broken and found it near impossible to take my foot right off the clutch pedal. We put gauges on the tractor to prove this theory and with the pedal depressed by only 10mm it halved clutch pressures.
What I'm trying to say is try and not fall out with your dealer until it has been diagnosed. They might be able to prove its driver error . ( I'm not having a go but there will be a time and place to start your fight properly You might need help off your area manager
To give an example we put a new clutch pack in a Massey 4355 recently which only lasted 90 hours.
Farmer very unhappy as you can imagine and I took the its warranty speech to heart before pulling it apart. On recovery of the tractor I noticed the air seat had broken and found it near impossible to take my foot right off the clutch pedal. We put gauges on the tractor to prove this theory and with the pedal depressed by only 10mm it halved clutch pressures.
What I'm trying to say is try and not fall out with your dealer until it has been diagnosed. They might be able to prove its driver error . ( I'm not having a go but there will be a time and place to start your fight properly You might need help off your area manager