What happens when mills refuse to let drivers sweep out

PSQ · Dec 12, 2018

kiwi pom said:
Very true it probably wouldn't have stopped it BUT if the company actually addressed the problem and insisted trucks were properly emptied and cleaned at the receiver or diverted to a proper wash out facility, you wouldn't get the 'layby cleanout' problem in the first place.

How many enterprising people will look at this judgment (and MANY others like it) and say “what’s the point of running an honest business and employing staff when judges remove all personal accountability from employees when they do something that defies basic common sense?”
Giving each employee a file with 2000 risk assessments doesn’t do jack sh!t for employee safety, it just protects the employer from a judge who has spent 30 years practicing the ‘art’ of litigation.

Do any of the people reading this thread have a formal risk assessment to specifically cover their arse for an employee that doesn’t have the wherewithal to look up when they tip a trailer, ffs?

Pieces_of_Eight · Dec 12, 2018

The haulier should have had a written policy preventing employees from fly tipping in lay bys? :scratchhead:

I remember seeing 300kg of olive cake sat at the roadside for well over a year on an A road near here

kiwi pom · Dec 12, 2018

PSQ said:
How many enterprising people will look at this judgment (and MANY others like it) and say “what’s the point of running an honest business and employing staff when judges remove all personal accountability from employees when they do something that defies basic common sense?”
Giving each employee a file with 2000 risk assessments doesn’t do jack sh!t for employee safety, it just protects the employer from a judge who has spent 30 years practicing the ‘art’ of litigation.

Do any of the people reading this thread have a formal risk assessment to specifically cover their arse for an employee that doesn’t have the wherewithal to look up when they tip a trailer, ffs?

As I said it was totally the drivers fault he should have looked up but didn't but if the company had a procedure that insisted trailers were cleaned at the receiver, which would most certainly be "Basic common sense" it would remove/reduce the risk and the accident wouldn't have happened.
You don't need '2000 risk assessments' just decent procedures to cover yourself.

Drillman · Dec 12, 2018

As a producer when I load a lorry I expect 100% of it to be delivered. Anything less is theft.

How the lorry is emptied is not my concern but should be done properly. The end user needs to have things in place so lorries leave empty. Sweeping out in lay-bys just isn’t acceptable from my point of view.

Exfarmer · Dec 12, 2018

It seems ludicrous on so many counts that drivers are allowed to leave the destination with part of the load still on board.
For a start the farmer has been defrauded! There has been more than one haulier with a profitable sideline of taxing loads in this way.
Then to clean out anywhere outside the mill is fly tipping which obviously the mill is encouraging.
It should be put into thr UKASTA contract that no lorry is to leave a mill till it is swept out.
Of course at the moment the mills do not pay for any grain which is weighed out so they are not losing a penny, it should be the last mill who pays this drivers compensation by placing him in this invidious position

Woldgrain Storage · Dec 12, 2018

kiwi pom said:
if the company had a procedure that insisted trailers were cleaned at the receiver, which would most certainly be "Basic common sense" it would remove/reduce the risk and the accident wouldn't have happened.

Many grain receivers have a policy of "no sweeping out on site", "no entering trailers", "no backdoor tipping", "no reversing" etc. etc. etc.

If hauliers only delivered to sites that had designated sweeping out areas, they would soon be out of work.

Tipping through the hatch/sock reduces dust at the pit and is manageable for antique/vintage intake machinery, but leaves 100kg in the corners.

Over the years we have seen some downright dangerous tipping, including drivers releasing the back door with the trailer body fully raised.

The next TASCC code will probably include a clause stating that all sites must have a sweeping out facility, which would be a great improvement all round.

Drillman · Dec 12, 2018

Exfarmer said:
It seems ludicrous on so many counts that drivers are allowed to leave the destination with part of the load still on board.
For a start the farmer has been defrauded! There has been more than one haulier with a profitable sideline of taxing loads in this way.
Then to clean out anywhere outside the mill is fly tipping which obviously the mill is encouraging.
It should be put into thr UKASTA contract that no lorry is to leave a mill till it is swept out.
Of course at the moment the mills do not pay for any grain which is weighed out so they are not losing a penny, it should be the last mill who pays this drivers compensation by placing him in this invidious position

Fully agree

Drillman · Dec 12, 2018

Woldgrain Storage said:
Many grain receivers have a policy of "no sweeping out on site", "no entering trailers", "no backdoor tipping", "no reversing" etc. etc. etc.

If hauliers only delivered to sites that had designated sweeping out areas, they would soon be out of work.

Tipping through the hatch/sock reduces dust at the pit and is manageable for antique/vintage intake machinery, but leaves 100kg in the corners.

Over the years we have seen some downright dangerous tipping, including drivers releasing the back door with the trailer body fully raised.

The next TASCC code will probably include a clause stating that all sites must have a sweeping out facility, which would be a great improvement all round.

Sounds to me that it be better if the mills had sweep out areas or they be out of grain. Because it’s becoming increasingly obvious that they are the cause of the problem.

Currently they appear to be playing the Elf and safety card rather than investing in proper facilities!

Woldgrain Storage · Dec 12, 2018

Drillman said:
As a producer when I load a lorry I expect 100% of it to be delivered.

Also, you wouldn't expect a claim/rejection on your malting barley because the driver didn't sweep out the 100kg feed pellets first.

How many growers actually check the trailer hygiene before signing section 6 on the passport?

Will Blackburn · Dec 12, 2018

Sweep out areas before the exit weighbridge.

kiwi pom · Dec 12, 2018

Drillman said:
Sounds to me that it be better if the mills had sweep out areas or they be out of grain. Because it’s becoming increasingly obvious that they are the cause of the problem.

Currently they appear to be playing the Elf and safety card rather than investing in proper facilities!

Exactly if all hauliers, including farmer owned transport refused to deliver to these places they'd be finished in no time but its easier to just do it and let the driver sort the problem out.

Pieces_of_Eight · Dec 12, 2018

matthew said:
Fly tipping?

I'm not ignoring the thoroughly horrific, life changing injuries sustained by the driver, but I am surprised he has been awarded "massive damages" when his accident was 100% caused by his own illegal activities.

kiwi pom · Dec 12, 2018

Pieces_of_Eight said:
I'm not ignoring the thoroughly horrific, life changing injuries sustained by the driver, but I am surprised he has been awarded "massive damages" when his accident was 100% caused by his own illegal activities.

What's he supposed to do though? The receiver wont let him clean the trailer and the next job wont load him if the trailers not cleaned out.
What would you do?

fieldfarmer · Dec 12, 2018

Woldgrain Storage said:
Also, you wouldn't expect a claim/rejection on your malting barley because the driver didn't sweep out the 100kg feed pellets first.

How many growers actually check the trailer hygiene before signing section 6 on the passport?

Had one driver get really pee'd off with me because I asked what his 3 previous loads were, before I would load human beans for export, so I asked to look in lorry he said no, after a bit of a stand off he opened tail gate and about 250kgs of wheat feed pellets fell out! got him to sweep every inch before I would load and wouldn't have worry if he just left empty.

Drillman · Dec 12, 2018

kiwi pom said:
What's he supposed to do though? The receiver wont let him clean the trailer and the next job wont load him if the trailers not cleaned out.
What would you do?

Simple the Lorry should go back to where the part load came from and give the owner there property back! And the owner of the previous load should bollock the receiver for not ensuring the load was delivered 100%

And obviously the receiver should pay for the additional haulage as they were the ones refusing to take delivery of the load they ordered.

fieldfarmer · Dec 12, 2018

Woldgrain Storage said:
Many grain receivers have a policy of "no sweeping out on site", "no entering trailers", "no backdoor tipping", "no reversing" etc. etc. etc.

If hauliers only delivered to sites that had designated sweeping out areas, they would soon be out of work.

Tipping through the hatch/sock reduces dust at the pit and is manageable for antique/vintage intake machinery, but leaves 100kg in the corners.

Over the years we have seen some downright dangerous tipping, including drivers releasing the back door with the trailer body fully raised.

The next TASCC code will probably include a clause stating that all sites must have a sweeping out facility, which would be a great improvement all round.

Does the TASCC code not have some training/ guide line telling drivers about safe tipping? If a assured / approved lorry comes on to farm I would like to think the driver knows how to work safely.

Pieces_of_Eight · Dec 12, 2018

kiwi pom said:
What's he supposed to do though?

What would you do?

I appreciate the driver's predicament.

I suppose if I arrived on farm to load, I would ask if there was somewhere I could sweep out. The farm would then gain the 100kg from the previous load :scratchhead:

Alternatively I would keep some decent bin bags in the cab and keep it for myself :scratchhead:

unlacedgecko · Dec 12, 2018

Production facilities are awful places to operate as a haulier.

I worked a contract (non Ag) where curtain side trailers were loaded on site. Drivers were not allowed to enter the trailers on site. If there was a problem which required the driver to enter the trailer to rectify he had to leave site to do so.

This led to drivers entering and working on trailers on the side of a live road, risking death/life changing injury as well as road congestion.

The policy had nothing to do with reducing risk/health and safety. It was purely to reduce the exposure of the facility to personal accident litigation.

I didn't work there long.

Roy_H · Dec 12, 2018

matthew said:
Fly tipping?

It is isn't it!

Woldgrain Storage · Dec 12, 2018

fieldfarmer said:
Does the TASCC code not have some training/ guide line telling drivers about safe tipping? If a assured / approved lorry comes on to farm I would like to think the driver knows how to work safely.

The TASCC code sets out operating procedures in relation to food and feed safety and is not worded with H&S in mind.

However, drivers will all have a current CPC certificate and should have had some sort of in-house training or induction with their employers.

We often see HGV drivers who have been driving for 10 years plus, but have only just started doing tippers.

What happens when mills refuse to let drivers sweep out

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