well I understood at the time and still do
thebrexitparty.com
- Thread starter Bomber_Harris
- Start date
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
You understood what you think it means, but that’s not the same thing as what the others think and what will happen, is it?
- Location
- South Wales UK
Two boxes.
1 remain.
1 leave.
The Leave eu received the most votes.
What's hard to understand ???
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
You’ve posted that same question to me before, and I’ve answered before.
- Location
- South Wales UK
Going round in circles Parliament too.
The decision was declared, but NOT carried out YET .
160 leave MPs , 485 remain MPs , says it all .
- Location
- South Wales UK
arbel
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Not really! We have a system in this country of one man/woman, one vote. 16,141,241 Remain - 17,410,742 Leave. The Leavers have it! Unlock.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
The Electoral Commission has today published the conclusions of its investigation into the campaign spending of Vote Leave and a number of other campaigners, and has found Vote Leave and Darren Grimes broke electoral law.
The Commission’s investigation found significant evidence of joint working between the lead campaigner, Vote Leave and another campaign group BeLeave.
Evidence shows that BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave. This spending should have been declared by Vote Leave. It means Vote Leave exceeded its legal spending limit of £7 million by almost £500,000.
Vote Leave also returned an incomplete and inaccurate spending report, with nearly £234,501 reported incorrectly, and invoices missing for £12,849.99 of spending.
Darren Grimes, the founder of the BeLeave campaign group, was found to have committed two offences and has been fined £20,000. Mr Grimes spent more than £675,000 on behalf of BeLeave, a non-registered campaigner that had a spending limit of £10,000. Further, he wrongly reported that same spending as his own.
The Commission has now referred both Mr David Halsall the responsible person for Vote Leave, and Mr Grimes to the Metropolitan Police in relation to false declarations of campaign spending.
It has also shared its investigation files with the Metropolitan Police in relation to whether any persons have committed related offences which lie outside the Commission’s regulatory remit.
Bob Posner, Electoral Commission Director of Political Finance and Regulation & Legal Counsel, said:
“The Electoral Commission has followed the evidence and conducted a thorough investigation into spending and campaigning carried out by Vote Leave and BeLeave. We found substantial evidence that the two groups worked to a common plan, did not declare their joint working and did not adhere to the legal spending limits. These are serious breaches of the laws put in place by Parliament to ensure fairness and transparency at elections and referendums. Our findings relate primarily to the organisation which put itself forward as fit to be the designated campaigner for the ‘leave’ outcome.”
Commenting on the investigation itself, Bob Posner continued:
“Vote Leave has resisted our investigation from the start, including contesting our right as the statutory regulator to open the investigation. It has refused to cooperate, refused our requests to put forward a representative for interview, and forced us to use our legal powers to compel it to provide evidence. Nevertheless, the evidence we have found is clear and substantial, and can now be seen in our report.”
The investigation also found that the campaign group Veterans for Britain inaccurately reported a donation it received from Vote Leave. It has been fined £250. There was no evidence that Veterans for Britain campaigned under a common plan with Vote Leave.
Background to the investigation
Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) it was the responsibility of all campaigners to ensure that an accurate and complete campaign spending return was submitted to the Electoral Commission by the statutory deadline following the EU referendum.
In November 2017 the Commission opened an investigation after it found evidence to indicate that Vote Leave had made payments to Aggregate IQ in the ten days before the referendum, apparently on behalf of two separate campaigners: BeLeave and Veterans for Britain. This suggested a pattern of action by Vote Leave which in turn suggested the possibility that Vote Leave had worked with other campaign groups under a common plan.
The findings presented in our public report today mark the conclusion of our first and only investigation into joint spending by Vote Leave at the EU referendum.
Scope of the investigation
The investigation examined:
We conducted a thorough and fair investigation. We requested and received evidence from a range of individuals and sources, including from Vote Leave and Mr Grimes. The individuals and the campaign groups investigated by us were all invited to be interviewed and to provide us with evidence. Vote Leave declined to be interviewed. Its lack of cooperation is reflected in the penalties.
The Commission having concluded this matter, highlights again that it has been restricted by the maximum individual fine limit of £20,000. The Commission considers this inadequate for serious offences of electoral or referendum law. Looking forward, we have recommended that government and parliament in the UK should change the law to enable us to impose substantially higher fines in line with other comparable regulators.
The Commission’s investigation found significant evidence of joint working between the lead campaigner, Vote Leave and another campaign group BeLeave.
Evidence shows that BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave. This spending should have been declared by Vote Leave. It means Vote Leave exceeded its legal spending limit of £7 million by almost £500,000.
Vote Leave also returned an incomplete and inaccurate spending report, with nearly £234,501 reported incorrectly, and invoices missing for £12,849.99 of spending.
Darren Grimes, the founder of the BeLeave campaign group, was found to have committed two offences and has been fined £20,000. Mr Grimes spent more than £675,000 on behalf of BeLeave, a non-registered campaigner that had a spending limit of £10,000. Further, he wrongly reported that same spending as his own.
The Commission has now referred both Mr David Halsall the responsible person for Vote Leave, and Mr Grimes to the Metropolitan Police in relation to false declarations of campaign spending.
It has also shared its investigation files with the Metropolitan Police in relation to whether any persons have committed related offences which lie outside the Commission’s regulatory remit.
Bob Posner, Electoral Commission Director of Political Finance and Regulation & Legal Counsel, said:
“The Electoral Commission has followed the evidence and conducted a thorough investigation into spending and campaigning carried out by Vote Leave and BeLeave. We found substantial evidence that the two groups worked to a common plan, did not declare their joint working and did not adhere to the legal spending limits. These are serious breaches of the laws put in place by Parliament to ensure fairness and transparency at elections and referendums. Our findings relate primarily to the organisation which put itself forward as fit to be the designated campaigner for the ‘leave’ outcome.”
Commenting on the investigation itself, Bob Posner continued:
“Vote Leave has resisted our investigation from the start, including contesting our right as the statutory regulator to open the investigation. It has refused to cooperate, refused our requests to put forward a representative for interview, and forced us to use our legal powers to compel it to provide evidence. Nevertheless, the evidence we have found is clear and substantial, and can now be seen in our report.”
The investigation also found that the campaign group Veterans for Britain inaccurately reported a donation it received from Vote Leave. It has been fined £250. There was no evidence that Veterans for Britain campaigned under a common plan with Vote Leave.
Background to the investigation
Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA) it was the responsibility of all campaigners to ensure that an accurate and complete campaign spending return was submitted to the Electoral Commission by the statutory deadline following the EU referendum.
In November 2017 the Commission opened an investigation after it found evidence to indicate that Vote Leave had made payments to Aggregate IQ in the ten days before the referendum, apparently on behalf of two separate campaigners: BeLeave and Veterans for Britain. This suggested a pattern of action by Vote Leave which in turn suggested the possibility that Vote Leave had worked with other campaign groups under a common plan.
The findings presented in our public report today mark the conclusion of our first and only investigation into joint spending by Vote Leave at the EU referendum.
Scope of the investigation
The investigation examined:
- Whether joint working took place between Vote Leave, BeLeave and Veterans for Britain, and if this joint working caused Vote Leave to exceed its spending limit.
- The accuracy and completeness of the spending returns provided by Vote Leave, Mr Grimes and Veterans for Britain.
- Whether BeLeave exceeded its spending limit as an unregistered campaigner.
- Whether the responsible person for Veterans for Britain failed to accurately report a donation.
- Whether Vote Leave failed to comply with an investigation notice issued by the Commission.
- All Mr Grimes’ and BeLeave’s spending on referendum campaigning was incurred under a common plan with Vote Leave. Vote Leave should have declared the amount of joint spending in its referendum spending return and therefore failed to deliver a complete campaign spending return.
- Vote Leave’s referendum spending was £7,449,079.34, exceeding its statutory spending limit of £7 million.
- Vote Leave’s spending return was inaccurate in respect of 43 items of spending, totalling £236,501.44. Eight payments of over £200 in Vote Leave’s return did not have an invoice or receipt with them. These payments came to £12,849.99.
- As an unregistered campaigner, BeLeave exceeded its spending limit of £10,000 by more than £666,000.
- Mr Grimes delivered an inaccurate and incomplete spending return in his capacity as an individual campaigner.
- Veterans for Britain’s inaccurately reported a donation it received from Vote Leave.
- Vote Leave failed to comply with an investigation notice issued by the Commission.
We conducted a thorough and fair investigation. We requested and received evidence from a range of individuals and sources, including from Vote Leave and Mr Grimes. The individuals and the campaign groups investigated by us were all invited to be interviewed and to provide us with evidence. Vote Leave declined to be interviewed. Its lack of cooperation is reflected in the penalties.
The Commission having concluded this matter, highlights again that it has been restricted by the maximum individual fine limit of £20,000. The Commission considers this inadequate for serious offences of electoral or referendum law. Looking forward, we have recommended that government and parliament in the UK should change the law to enable us to impose substantially higher fines in line with other comparable regulators.
arbel
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
And your point is?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
So, the leave campaign actually spent at least £8M on campaigning against an allowance of £7M, not including minor individual limits etc.
If we assume that each pound spent would gain an increment in votes (and clearly they did, or they wouldn't have broken the law so brazenly), then they basically bought the result.
You're all right, democracy is dead. Good job it wasn't a binding vote.
If we assume that each pound spent would gain an increment in votes (and clearly they did, or they wouldn't have broken the law so brazenly), then they basically bought the result.
You're all right, democracy is dead. Good job it wasn't a binding vote.
How much did project fear cost ?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
You tell me. Was that a remain or a leave campaign? It isn't noted on the Electoral Commission report so I assume less than £10k.
arbel
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
That is an interesting point! The Remainers had all the big guns out there, batting for them. MP's, The Governor of the Bank of England, previous Prime Ministers etc - all on fat salaries or taxpayer funded pensions. I very much doubt if a bit of overspend had any material effect on the end result. Clutching at straws will do nothing to enhance the Remainers argument,
- Location
- South Wales UK
Here she goes again.
Can't get it into 1 sentence can you?
Remain camp also illegal activities?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
She?
And it's a quote from the electoral commission website, so best to have it all there. It may be more than one sentence, but at least it is coherent.
There's a subtle difference between mislaying a few quid of invoices and colluding to break the law to the tune of around £1M of spending.
caveman
Member
- Location
- East Sussex.
Didn't Cameroon spend nine million quid of tax payers money, to shove a bit of bog paper full of subliminal messages through every letter box in the land?
And remoaners arse on about a few words on a bus that gives them instant dyslexia.
And remoaners arse on about a few words on a bus that gives them instant dyslexia.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Both the remain and leave lead campaigners sent a mailing to every household in the country. Those and other costs were swallowed by the taxpayer, as outlined here.
https://www.electoralcommission.org...m-on-the-uks-membership-of-the-european-union
Oh, and Leave spent around £1.2M more of our money on that than Remain did.
Where's carpet bomber these days ?
Those Bollox to Brexit stickers won't stick themselves.....
Probably on a 2 week holiday in Benidorm. Remainers hate Blighty that much they have to spend 50% of the year abroad.
Pity they don't f**k off permanently.
Those Bollox to Brexit stickers won't stick themselves.....
Probably on a 2 week holiday in Benidorm. Remainers hate Blighty that much they have to spend 50% of the year abroad.
Pity they don't f**k off permanently.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Where's carpet bomber these days ?
Those Bollox to Brexit stickers won't stick themselves.....
Probably on a 2 week holiday in Benidorm. Remainers hate Blighty that much they have to spend 50% of the year abroad.
I thought it was Leave that wanted to leave. I'll stay in my home thank you, in the UK.
- Tags
- blight establishment