Australia Free Trade Deal?

kiwi pom · May 22, 2021

Kidds said:
Maybe potential for backloads of water when you drop your meat off here.

Now there's a good idea

Don't know whether this will play but gives you an idea of grass growth without irrigation in Canterbury.
Parched paddocks: How Canterbury farmers are adapting to the big dry | Stuff.co.nz

lloyd · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
And it never will, I personally believe the only way to reduce the impact of regulation is to design away from the type of business that requires regulation - a minority view on TFF - as it's very much like weather in that we have little control over what is passed over to us. Just like @cows sh#t me to tears' water allocation or a whole host of other risks to 'business as we know it'

it's actually quite alarming to realise just how fragile status-quo agriculture is/has become

Nice idea Pete can you give some examples regarding
UK agriculture that require little or no regulation?
Keep it legal pls

Jimdog1 · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
And it never will, I personally believe the only way to reduce the impact of regulation is to design away from the type of business that requires regulation - a minority view on TFF - as it's very much like weather in that we have little control over what is passed over to us. Just like @cows sh#t me to tears' water allocation or a whole host of other risks to 'business as we know it'

it's actually quite alarming to realise just how fragile status-quo agriculture is/has become

Your quite right. But the reality is the burden of regulation and bureaucracy isn't going to go away. I don't like it any more than the next man but you either have to deal with it or get out. Sometimes it seems the more hoops you are prepared to jump through the higher price you can achieve. Can suck the fun out though.

Hilly · May 22, 2021

Jimdog1 said:
Your quite right. But the reality is the burden of regulation and bureaucracy isn't going to go away. I don't like it any more than the next man but you either have to deal with it or get out. Sometimes it seems the more hoops you are prepared to jump through the higher price you can achieve. Can suck the fun out though.

That’s exactly it , sucks the fun out of it .

Kiwi Pete · May 22, 2021

lloyd said:
Nice idea Pete can you give some examples regarding
UK agriculture that require little or no regulation?
Keep it legal pls

Most of it,, if farmers would regulate themselves; just the same as here very little of it is sustainable without rules, a heap of inputs and cheaply obtained labour

That basically is agriculture

A whole host of things you can do with your land and business that shifts you away from risk, probably this is why farmers get cheap or free money, so that they persue higher-risk activities than they otherwise would see fit?

lloyd · May 22, 2021

Hilly said:
That’s exactly it , sucks the fun out of it .

Well the government are offering retirement relief.

Jimdog1 · May 22, 2021

lloyd said:
Well the government are offering retirement relief.

Let us know how that goes.

lloyd · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Most of it,, if farmers would regulate themselves; just the same as here very little of it is sustainable without rules, a heap of inputs and cheaply obtained labour

That basically is agriculture

A whole host of things you can do with your land and business that shifts you away from risk, probably this is why farmers get cheap or free money, so that they persue higher-risk activities than they otherwise would see fit?

Too early in the morning for riddles just lead me to
that unregulated golden goose.....pls.

What risk averse land activities are you thinking ?

lloyd · May 22, 2021

Jimdog1 said:
Let us know how that goes.

I will if Kiwi Pete gives me the answer I need .

Vader · May 22, 2021

deere 6600 said:
How can they bring it to the other side of the world ?

Fits Boris plan for zero carbon.
No nasty cows in uk.
But have beef shipped half way round the world instead.
Not our footprint so dont matter...

ollie989898 · May 22, 2021

There is too much negativity in this place and I will never understand the perpetual fear of imported product on here either. If it was economic to ship Australian beef/lamb to the UK it would already be happening. They are much much closer to China and it is obvious that Australia and China have close trading relations. Fair enough but the issue with this is that it may one day become politically or diplomatically necessary to rapidly change direction regarding their government's stance on China- imagine if they hit Taiwan with cruise missiles or the human rights abuses become too extreme for the world to continue ignoring? Then suddenly through no fault of their own Australian producers would be facing a radically altered marketplace.

The EU for too long has lived in a protectionist bubble, sheltering it's industries from real-world economic realties and then bunging cash at countries to keep them quiet. This is not a sustainable policy because ultimately there is still a wide disparity in the quality of life across some parts of Europe. There is also internal dissent regarding their idiotic policies on migration and free movement which member state governments will not keep a lid on forever. We have seen the rise of some unsavoury political groups in some parts of Europe and also the implementation of some peculiar government policies in some nations- the Burka ban etc. We also saw protests and the rapid installation of some pretty serious border fences in some parts of Europe.

The future for the UK, whose global power directly stemmed from being a maritime power and major trading hub will be in continuing to pursue better trade links with other countries on a global basis and in freeing up access to our markets.

Jimdog1 · May 22, 2021

ollie989898 said:
There is too much negativity in this place and I will never understand the perpetual fear of imported product on here either. If it was economic to ship Australian beef/lamb to the UK it would already be happening. They are much much closer to China and it is obvious that Australia and China have close trading relations. Fair enough but the issue with this is that it may one day become politically or diplomatically necessary to rapidly change direction regarding their government's stance on China- imagine if they hit Taiwan with cruise missiles or the human rights abuses become too extreme for the world to continue ignoring? Then suddenly through no fault of their own Australian producers would be facing a radically altered marketplace.

The EU for too long has lived in a protectionist bubble, sheltering it's industries from real-world economic realties and then bunging cash at countries to keep them quiet. This is not a sustainable policy because ultimately there is still a wide disparity in the quality of life across some parts of Europe. There is also internal dissent regarding their idiotic policies on migration and free movement which member state governments will not keep a lid on forever. We have seen the rise of some unsavoury political groups in some parts of Europe and also the implementation of some peculiar government policies in some nations- the Burka ban etc. We also saw protests and the rapid installation of some pretty serious border fences in some parts of Europe.

The future for the UK, whose global power directly stemmed from being a maritime power and major trading hub will be in continuing to pursue better trade links with other countries on a global basis and in freeing up access to our markets.

It's not fear Ollie, its looking out for your own. Seems to work for the States.

Kiwi Pete · May 22, 2021

When the protected feel the need for more protection from the unprotected, it reads a lot like fear.

lloyd · May 22, 2021

ollie989898 said:
There is too much negativity in this place and I will never understand the perpetual fear of imported product on here either. If it was economic to ship Australian beef/lamb to the UK it would already be happening. They are much much closer to China and it is obvious that Australia and China have close trading relations. Fair enough but the issue with this is that it may one day become politically or diplomatically necessary to rapidly change direction regarding their government's stance on China- imagine if they hit Taiwan with cruise missiles or the human rights abuses become too extreme for the world to continue ignoring? Then suddenly through no fault of their own Australian producers would be facing a radically altered marketplace.

The EU for too long has lived in a protectionist bubble, sheltering it's industries from real-world economic realties and then bunging cash at countries to keep them quiet. This is not a sustainable policy because ultimately there is still a wide disparity in the quality of life across some parts of Europe. There is also internal dissent regarding their idiotic policies on migration and free movement which member state governments will not keep a lid on forever. We have seen the rise of some unsavoury political groups in some parts of Europe and also the implementation of some peculiar government policies in some nations- the Burka ban etc. We also saw protests and the rapid installation of some pretty serious border fences in some parts of Europe.

The future for the UK, whose global power directly stemmed from being a maritime power and major trading hub will be in continuing to pursue better trade links with other countries on a global basis and in freeing up access to our markets.

So are you for scrapping all regulation which disadvantages the UK ?
Dont forget the subsidies will be disappearing fast over the next 5 years.
While we're being told to plant trees and re wild ,Australia is still clearing
hundreds of thousands of acres of land each year for food production.
Basically this government wants its cake and eat it.Exporting the enviromental
consequences elsewhere.

ollie989898 · May 22, 2021

Jimdog1 said:
It's not fear Ollie, its looking out for your own. Seems to work for the States.

The USA is a very large country. It's car industry can survive solely because it has such a large internal market and there is much less pressure on them because fuel is so dirt cheap there. American cars do not really sell outside of the USA. It's not a solution that is going to work in all countries. The UK does not have 300 million citizens, nor does it have 300 million potential buyers of Land Rovers etc- only a portion of the European populace could possibly afford one as they are all pricey.

The Japanese and Korean manufacturers built plants in the UK and Europe. They wanted a slice of the action. They have done the same in the USA.

Nations or economies that rely solely on being self sufficient all usually fail or are in all but name. North Korea and the USSR are two examples.

ollie989898 · May 22, 2021

lloyd said:
So are you for scrapping all regulation which disadvantages the UK ?
Dont forget the subsidies will be disappearing fast over the next 5 years.
While we're being told to plant trees and re wild ,Australia is still clearing
hundreds of thousands of acres of land each year for food production.
Basically this government wants its cake and eat it.Exporting the enviromental
consequences elsewhere.

I could not care a jot about subsides. The way they were used and implemented was extremely foolhardy.

It is an often repeated myth on TFF that farmers in the USA/North America or New Zealand etc are all able to farm in a totally unregulated way. It's totally false and what is more, it is actually a marketing advantage that such regulations exist. One of the local milk processors in this region are able to ship premium quality milk powder to Asia for this exact reason, no wonder then that they are working on tightening up standards for all their milk suppliers.

lloyd · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
When the protected feel the need for more protection from the unprotected, it reads a lot like fear.

But who are the protected going to be?

lloyd · May 22, 2021

ollie989898 said:
I could not care a jot about subsides. The way they were used and implemented was extremely foolhardy.

It is an often repeated myth on TFF that farmers in the USA/North America or New Zealand etc are all able to farm in a totally unregulated way. It's totally false and what is more, it is actually a marketing advantage that such regulations exist. One of the local milk processors in this region are able to ship premium quality milk powder to Asia for this exact reason, no wonder then that they are working on tightening up standards for all their milk suppliers.

So I can start up my Komatsu this morning and make my fields twice
the size can I?
I see you've avoided the question about enviromental destruction elsewhere
in the world to increase farming capacity.

ollie989898 · May 22, 2021

lloyd said:
So I can start up my Komatsu this morning and make my fields twice
the size can I?
I see you've avoided the question about enviromental destruction elsewhere
in the world to increase farming capacity.

I have no doubt that there is environmental damage being caused everywhere. It is happening in the UK as houses are built endlessly as well. I see no difference between watching portion of Surrey going under tarmac or someone in Australia with a Komatsu bulldozing scrub or native bush to make farmland. What point are you making?

Henarar · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
When the protected feel the need for more protection from the unprotected, it reads a lot like fear.

No it reads like over protection

Australia Free Trade Deal?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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