"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

som farmer · May 20, 2021

chuck in the %variance, allowed by EU, a 16% protien cake, could be little more than 14 %. We look at the ingredient list, and see what's in the top of it, when soya, or similar is well down the list, you know it's a cheapy one. Some ingredients while having the correct food value, that value cannot be extracted by the cow, in the time it passes through, PK is the best example. Straights, blends or home mix can be better/cheaper, and accurate, it's all down to price. The simpler the mix, the less chance of 2nd quality ingredients. (or 3rd 4th). Cost of all these, is going one way, upwards in price, or availability, eg brazilian soya, which underlines the importance of home produced quality forage.

Kiwi Pete · May 20, 2021

Loadabullocks said:
View attachment 961896
Thistles... only this part of the field. What does it tell me about the soil here? (And how to correct?! )

It's good healthy soil.
Your pasture is relatively new.
(Oh, and you haven't intervened)

Thistles actually tell us SFA about soil, they are just there. They're everywhere! Regardless of fertility or anything else. Usually they are just waiting for the right conditions to
a. be needed
b. be as/more successful than whatever else is growing there

hence a bit of a gap in the cover, disturbance etc they are right there ready, and they are great pumps. Like agroforestry brings significant benefits, so too do any "different plants"

Crofter64 · May 20, 2021

Karliboy said:
Anyone got a tidy system for carrying all there fence gear in a transport box? Looking for ideas View attachment 961198
I’ve still got water trough pipe and battery and energisers to go in yet.
I think I may invest in a kiwi tech drinker to get rid of the big bath and stick a couple non returns in pipe for safety as we are on mains.View attachment 961199

I’ve wondering how many people use metal wire as opposed to twine in their movable fences? What are the advantages of metal over twine? For myself I prefer the weight of the twine, I find it easy to repair when it breaks, it doesn’t snap if I reel it up incorrectly . I also see that you don’t use handles Karliboy.How do you attach your wires and can you undo them when they’re hot?

som farmer · May 20, 2021

string, and no, for us.
we had a 'problem' few years back, pre mains fencers, and changed a plastic wire, to metal, and didn't get on well with it, it kinked a lot, hard work winding in, changed back to plastic. Considering metal was all we had for years, something has changed, from the past, because it wasn't problematic then, or is it that poly wire is so much easier to handle.

Karliboy · May 20, 2021

Crofter64 said:
I’ve wondering how many people use metal wire as opposed to twine in their movable fences? What are the advantages of metal over twine? For myself I prefer the weight of the twine, I find it easy to repair when it breaks, it doesn’t snap if I reel it up incorrectly . I also see that you don’t use handles Karliboy.How do you attach your wires and can you undo them when they’re hot?

I’ve only ever used steel wire as when I was younger we never had much luck with the poly so we gave up on it and just stuck with wire
Most ends run up to a fence line so I just screw these into the wooden posts and hook on

I always switch wires off when moving stock as I’m all battery units so it’s just easier.
only thing with the steel wire is it can kink easy so that then snags but never much problem solong as your careful.
Reels are not over heavy as I only have 200 meters on each reel.

Kiwi Pete · May 20, 2021

Crofter64 said:
I’ve wondering how many people use metal wire as opposed to twine in their movable fences? What are the advantages of metal over twine? For myself I prefer the weight of the twine, I find it easy to repair when it breaks, it doesn’t snap if I reel it up incorrectly . I also see that you don’t use handles Karliboy.How do you attach your wires and can you undo them when they’re hot?

I did when we were strip-grazing winter crops. A "pole reel" at one end, and a "hook reel" on the other

we were grazing beet and stepping maybe 200-300 yards across about 4-5 feet per day - I'd let a half turn off one reel, move it along, then shift all the pigtails on my way down the line, shift the other reel and click it up half a turn

we'd just go around the farm in the opposite direction next time and it actually went very well, none of the broken conductors/resistance issues with wire.
Didn't have a safety fence in front, and it didn't tie up all our poly reels which was handy - springtime on a dairy farm, you're always short on stuff- springers and colostrum cows and milkers all needing fences up etc

The other advantage there was, we'd have it all set up months ahead of needing it- so it was then just matter of put the pigtails in, heat it up with a jumper of underground cable and put cows in.

If we'd tried to do all of that with poly, we'd have needed twice as many reels of it just for that one month or so, so it far outweighed the fact it's heavy to roll up

bendigeidfran · May 20, 2021

Crofter64 said:
I’ve wondering how many people use metal wire as opposed to twine in their movable fences? What are the advantages of metal over twine? For myself I prefer the weight of the twine, I find it easy to repair when it breaks, it doesn’t snap if I reel it up incorrectly . I also see that you don’t use handles Karliboy.How do you attach your wires and can you undo them when they’re hot?

Used wire when grazing sweeds with ewes, prefer polywire, lighter doesn't kink and is visable to stock. Seen stock run in to wire but not white polywire.

Bury the Trash · May 20, 2021

Crofter64 said:
I’ve wondering how many people use metal wire as opposed to twine in their movable fences? What are the advantages of metal over twine? For myself I prefer the weight of the twine, I find it easy to repair when it breaks, it doesn’t snap if I reel it up incorrectly . I also see that you don’t use handles Karliboy.How do you attach your wires and can you undo them when they’re hot?

Have used galvanised multi stranded in the past a long time ago
but . For the same reasons as above post , easier to pull/ stretch to tension we find polywire better / easier to use ...but we only get the thicker 6 metal stranded poly , costs more but resistance is v low .way lower thus better conductivity and contact area than common or garden poly , but it nog a lot stronger/ will still break mind you.
I think also the white or colour of it is different from unelectrified galvanised wire stock that we have around so it stands to reason that they crucially treat it in a different way.

Kiwi Pete · May 20, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
Have used galvanised multi stranded in the past a long time ago
but . For the same reasons as above post , easier to pull/ stretch to tension we find polywire better / easier to use ...but we only get the thicker 6 metal stranded poly , costs more but resistance is v low .way lower thus better conductivity and contact area than common or garden poly , but it nog a lot stronger/ will still break mind you.
I think also the white or colour of it is different from unelectrified galvanised wire stock that we have around so it stands to reason that they crucially treat it in a different way.

Very definitely. Because we quite often shift our mobs in the gloom or semi-dark, it's really apparent.

(We've got one wire, one poly, one wire etc all the way down the farm.)

When we shift under the poly they just creep in, because they know that next wire is out there but can't see where it is, so they walk. But they go under it well.

When we shift under the wire, they struggle to see it until they can pick it out against the sky, so they creep there.. and then bound around the cell because they can see the far fence shining quite brightly.

Good to keep them guessing

Kiwi Pete · May 21, 2021

Going on from the link @Farmer Roy put up regarding the 270 day recoveries, probably "the best" video on regenerative grazing I have seen

despite watching goodness knows how many videos promoting the alternative version, it's good to have the "eat ⅓" thing debunked properly and a good insight into critical thinking based on good old 'farm science'

well worth a peek

Farmer Roy · May 21, 2021

Kiwi Pete · May 21, 2021

Farmer Roy said:
View attachment 962284 View attachment 962285

They'll keep you out of trouble.

I'll be interested to see what you think of Gerrish's "workings" after the high intensity low frequency grazing we've just been talking about on here, and how relateable they are to your own context.

Crofter64 · May 21, 2021

jonnyjon said:
Things not going so smoothly now, despite leaving behind far more than their eating, they are walking the fence line, grazing under the fence, making muck and wanting to move, they went through the fence this am. I'm moving them 1x day, don't want to give them the habit of 2 moves. Any ideas?

Its turning out to be a difficult spring here also. Its already in the 30’s and I am really taking the covers down in order to keep feed ahead of us. I keep hay available all the time in case they need a top up.There isn’t much ‘bottom ‘ to the pastures. I am keeping a careful watch on the fence system- keeping it at full power.
We are cleaning out the chicken pen today and I am going to spread the litter, not the stuff from the droppings pit, on the grazed pastures to cover the ground a wee bit while we wait for rain.
I didn’t know what our spring would be like but just in case I made reservations at the butcher for quite a few of the cattle and all early born lambs to go by mid July.

som farmer · May 21, 2021

it doesn't matter if you are intensive, extentsive, organic, holistic regen or normal, if anyone knows what normal is !
you cannot control, or alter the weather, and the reason people think we are always moaning about the weather.
Next door to us, is a lovely field of organic wheat, coming out into ear, and 8/10ins high, not exactly what is desired. That block of land is similar to some of ours, deep sandy loam, and extremely hungry, it's been in 'conversion' for 4 years, so is org now, it has been ploughed 5 times, so not only has he milked the soil, he's killed the soil biology. We align with regen principle, tending to work on soil strength, which should give us more resilience in our crops, this year, we have grass in abundance, yet many are saying they have little, having had to graze it.
So, if we have no say over weather, what can we do, to mitigate the 'bad' weather, many would say, not a lot, l am not sure about that, our grass, and s barley, has been slow growing this spring, due to dry and cold, since the rain, and a bit of warmth, both have 'exploded', is this co-incidence, or the fact our soil condition is improving, or even our grass management, my feeling is that our grass is deeper rooted, esp the 'dry' grasses, in a better medium, and they have sat there, growing root, just waiting for the right conditions, then 'boom'.
One thing l do know, we cut 100 ton of grass early, with what we see now, it looks like we will make more silage this cut, than we made in the whole of last year, and a 2nd cut is assured, and that is a very welcome feeling. Is it due to our regen leaning ? Don't really know, but certain our soils are in a 'better' condition now, than they were 4 yrs ago.

Kiwi Pete · May 21, 2021

som farmer said:
it doesn't matter if you are intensive, extentsive, organic, holistic regen or normal, if anyone knows what normal is !
you cannot control, or alter the weather, and the reason people think we are always moaning about the weather.
Next door to us, is a lovely field of organic wheat, coming out into ear, and 8/10ins high, not exactly what is desired. That block of land is similar to some of ours, deep sandy loam, and extremely hungry, it's been in 'conversion' for 4 years, so is org now, it has been ploughed 5 times, so not only has he milked the soil, he's killed the soil biology. We align with regen principle, tending to work on soil strength, which should give us more resilience in our crops, this year, we have grass in abundance, yet many are saying they have little, having had to graze it.
So, if we have no say over weather, what can we do, to mitigate the 'bad' weather, many would say, not a lot, l am not sure about that, our grass, and s barley, has been slow growing this spring, due to dry and cold, since the rain, and a bit of warmth, both have 'exploded', is this co-incidence, or the fact our soil condition is improving, or even our grass management, my feeling is that our grass is deeper rooted, esp the 'dry' grasses, in a better medium, and they have sat there, growing root, just waiting for the right conditions, then 'boom'.
One thing l do know, we cut 100 ton of grass early, with what we see now, it looks like we will make more silage this cut, than we made in the whole of last year, and a 2nd cut is assured, and that is a very welcome feeling. Is it due to our regen leaning ? Don't really know, but certain our soils are in a 'better' condition now, than they were 4 yrs ago.

Precisely. You can, however, design away from a fragile system towards one with far less inherent risk?

I think "efficiency" is to blame for a lot of risk in agriculture TBH, as Graeme touched on.

Kiwi Pete · May 22, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Going on from the link @Farmer Roy put up regarding the 270 day recoveries, probably "the best" video on regenerative grazing I have seen

despite watching goodness knows how many videos promoting the alternative version, it's good to have the "eat ⅓" thing debunked properly and a good insight into critical thinking based on good old 'farm science'

well worth a peek

@unlacedgecko

Kiwi Pete · May 22, 2021

Starting to come to it, personally I think it is quite a bit "past it" for R1s but they seem happy enough, lots of yellow litter in it and quite a bit of brown

Mopping it up well too

Crofter64 · May 22, 2021

May 21st and all headed out.Strangely the paddocks I set aside in the autumn are not as healthy looking as the ones I grazed at the end of the last season. Kind of opposite of what I expected but I am still sticking to my original plan of starting with the rested paddocks as I feel the roots of the other fields need to grow a bit .

Not even bothering to back fence every day as nothing is growing. Will have to put one eventually.

Kiwi Pete · May 22, 2021

Crofter64 said:
May 21st and all headed out.Strangely the paddocks I set aside in the autumn are not as healthy looking as the ones I grazed at the end of the last season. Kind of opposite of what I expected but I am still sticking to my original plan of starting with the rested paddocks as I feel the roots of the other fields need to grow a bit .
View attachment 962496

Wow, I quickly forget how green springtime is.
I like your plan

17th is about the date that it all shoots to seed here as well, which is kinda interesting as everything else is so different

however I wouldn't worry about what it's doing, hold them up according to your plan as opposed to trying to stop grass doing as grass does- in 10 weeks time you'll thank yourself because there will be so much more litter created and you will bounce much further forward in terms of nutrient cycling

som farmer · May 22, 2021

photo 1 looks like overwintered grass, plenty of 'fibre' mixed with the new, no 2 shows it has had the desired effect of keeping it in the animal longer, as the sh1t is rather solid. Probably not near the actual truth, but as i have posted before, lush grass goes through to fast, and needs slowing down, those 2 photo's show what l was referring to.
As feared, farming here, is looking like we are going to be sacrificed, in the drive for greater global trade, while we may not like that, in the greater scheme of things, understandable. What it will mean for us, taken with brexit, and no CAP, we are moving into a changing role for farmers, an unknown role as well.
We do know we have to be 'climate' friendly, aim for zero carbon foot print, and farm for the good of the public, quite a tall order. The days of throwing huge amounts of fert at crops, and spraying for 'everything' are probably over for many farms, it wont be viable, carbon storage, or sequestration, will pay us for doing, how the hell they will work that out beyond me. The vast majority of 'family' farms, will just have to sit tight, get some 'bung', and cut our costs down. There will be winners and sadly losers, instead of moaning, we should look to the future, as a chance to embrace new systems, new ways, and move on forward, because it will happen, and there's nothing going to stop it.
For those regular posters, (to regular some), we are already well on the path to change, every farming publication includes the words 'regenerative' now, last year it was a 'fad', and this is the direction we need/must move in, rather a nice feeling, to be ahead of the rest, for a change. We swop ideas, mistakes, good and bad points, on this thread, it's a real discussion forum, and it's brilliant. We know changes are on route, we shouldn't fear them, but look forward with confidence, as we know/do the 'right' thing now, and we are not greedy. Farming is a strong vibrant industry, those that look to the future, will thrive, those that don't................
There ends a party political speech, for regen farming !
as an encore, l have a new mobile, all it needs is for someone to teach me how to put photo's from one to here.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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