"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Pretty fed up with it here too.
Brighter today with a drying wind has reduced the mud, but more rain forecast for tomorrow.
Think these heifers should have moved a bit quicker yesterday ☹ Gonna chuck about a bit of seed and see what comes up with the regrowth. Might have to skip this paddock next round.
Bunch of cows not much better today.View attachment 962719
Good job there. How long is your planned round?
Won't be long and I'll be able to do that, if the rain keeps coming like this.
Pretty much what we tried to get happening on all our banks last year but some will want a repeat this winter.
Definitely skip it if you can, it will be the best part of the field in the coming years
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Always looks worse than it really is. Take another photo in a week and then 2 weeks. Ideal opportunity to get some new species in there.
Yes I was going to follow up to say it probably looks worse than it is, and it didn't look quite as bad next day even. They've churned it rather than turn it to soup, if you know what I mean. A previous patch on an awful day they huddled 1 end of the paddock and turned a small area to soup. That'll take a lot more to recover.
Didn't help that some were bulling in this paddock.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Good job there. How long is your planned round?
Won't be long and I'll be able to do that, if the rain keeps coming like this.
Pretty much what we tried to get happening on all our banks last year but some will want a repeat this winter.
Definitely skip it if you can, it will be the best part of the field in the coming years
Was aiming for 50+ day rotation but the slow spring will bring that down to nearer 40, though I shall give this paddock longer.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Was aiming for 50+ day rotation but the slow spring will bring that down to nearer 40, though I shall give this paddock longer.
I'd love to see what that would look like if you could afford it 80 days (ie skip it, or even just skip a part of it if you're still tight for tucker.
But my money is on you having one of those "well, I'll be damned" moments if you can do more of that type of "massage" as well as keep the stock tight enough that you can afford to hurry past them for a rotation.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
It probably cost a bit as far as "research and design" went.
But we didn't have to do all that, I just have insatiable curiosity/ irreducable rascality in my makeup 🤭🤠 it is what it is.

We could have shortcut a lot of that out but I am glad we had a play around with different things just to prove that they weren't "the best" before we redesigned our fencing layout etc, just so we didn't miss too many tricks.

I think our 28ha of "deluxe deluxe" techno will have cost around $450/ha all told - which isn't huge as a one-off capital type improvement. Could have done it much cheaper but "why"

it probably sounds cheaper if you divide that per paddock or per animal unit - we have 280 permanent paddocks set up for just under $44 per paddock, including water with minerals in it
that's because you put a posh system in ! Ours is pretty well all on reels, with a few strategic ht hot wires, do scour the internet for 'cheap' metal elec posts though. Our vaderstat cost £7500, a big purchase, when in the middle of drought, and buying fodder, good buy, and probably paid for itself x2, grass/clover/grass seed, lot gone there, but would have reseeded anyway, minimum cultivation cost, and in house, the drill gives us the choice, dd, mintil, overseeding, or the whole works accurately. For that outlay, we have turned our farm full circle, (or at least half)
so the journey for us, has been very low cost ! Not sure about the brain realignment cost.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Costs are funny things. Because we have such a simple business (and it has a high P:E ratio) it's quite easy to justify a one-off expense.
Different if it's a more marginal business, there may be more money there but still it isn't apparent always if it will save you much - or just cost you much

I don't like recurring costs at all . Hence the grand design away from "all that stuff" that went with the old design, things like fertility transfer, uneven grazing, time input -and tangles 😳

I am just in the process of mocking up the runners for my motorbikes - have some 10mm round bar to bend up and a bit of 40x4 for mounting brackets off the frame. Once I get that sorted out I'll pop up some photos so that chief bodger @exmoor dave can laugh at my welds
 
that's because you put a posh system in ! Ours is pretty well all on reels, with a few strategic ht hot wires, do scour the internet for 'cheap' metal elec posts though. Our vaderstat cost £7500, a big purchase, when in the middle of drought, and buying fodder, good buy, and probably paid for itself x2, grass/clover/grass seed, lot gone there, but would have reseeded anyway, minimum cultivation cost, and in house, the drill gives us the choice, dd, mintil, overseeding, or the whole works accurately. For that outlay, we have turned our farm full circle, (or at least half)
so the journey for us, has been very low cost ! Not sure about the brain realignment cost.

Alibaba.com

I was looking at it a lot a couple of days ago, shipping can be the killer depending on company. I checked against Irish companies, for example an insulated ratchet strainer was €4.50 here vs €0.82c on Alibaba, obvs there will be shipping and likely import charges on top of that. A screw in insulator for wooden post €0.15c in Ireland and less than €0.05c from China.

I'm going to order some samples just for my own farm to ensure they're not made of chewing gum and foil wrapper.
 

Sharpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Alibaba.com

I was looking at it a lot a couple of days ago, shipping can be the killer depending on company. I checked against Irish companies, for example an insulated ratchet strainer was €4.50 here vs €0.82c on Alibaba, obvs there will be shipping and likely import charges on top of that. A screw in insulator for wooden post €0.15c in Ireland and less than €0.05c from China.

I'm going to order some samples just for my own farm to ensure they're not made of chewing gum and foil wrapper.
A diversification opportunity?
 
A diversification opportunity?

I was thinking about it but, the shine get's a bit duller once you factor in shipping, import duties (?), website and merchant costs, distribution organisation etc. The goose starts laying normal eggs unless a person would get into it in a big way I reckon.

Another was a spring gate set, literally 1 spring, 1 handle, two screw in thingies for the posts, cost like one euro something in China, €10 something here.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
spring, handle and 2 thingies, paid £54, inc vat and delivery, for 10, 11 arrived, agri trader on p/pal, really good quality, might have to order another lot soon, very handy things.
Stakes, elec, metal from there were about £119, including vat, delivery, for 60, single pig tales, we have rather a lot.
Usually use voss, but they were quoting 4 weeks delivery, and just under AT on cost
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I love pigtails, just about know them all by name by now 🙄
the only ones I don't like are the really springy ones with the 3 kinks in them and the wrong-way pigtail bit, really can't get on with them as they make the fence far too high for us

I like the shorty ones, otherwise the cattle get on their knees and that's yick
 
spring, handle and 2 thingies, paid £54, inc vat and delivery, for 10, 11 arrived, agri trader on p/pal, really good quality, might have to order another lot soon, very handy things.
Stakes, elec, metal from there were about £119, including vat, delivery, for 60, single pig tales, we have rather a lot.
Usually use voss, but they were quoting 4 weeks delivery, and just under AT on cost

With Brexit, I was just checking out Irish pricing. But in the past I've order a lot of stuff from Voss, found them really good at that time but heard issues since.

Irish prices tend to be.................. vaseline needed.
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
Costs are funny things. Because we have such a simple business (and it has a high P:E ratio) it's quite easy to justify a one-off expense.
Different if it's a more marginal business, there may be more money there but still it isn't apparent always if it will save you much - or just cost you much

I don't like recurring costs at all . Hence the grand design away from "all that stuff" that went with the old design, things like fertility transfer, uneven grazing, time input -and tangles 😳

I am just in the process of mocking up the runners for my motorbikes - have some 10mm round bar to bend up and a bit of 40x4 for mounting brackets off the frame. Once I get that sorted out I'll pop up some photos so that chief bodger @exmoor dave can laugh at my welds


Can't wait too see them for bodgespection 🤓🤓

I bought some 19mm ali tube and some ali flat to make runners for my quad..... been sat in a pile for a year.
Trouble is that a poly stake held in one hand to push the fence down as you drive over is pretty easy too
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
Good stuff.

I think I've said that before 🤣🤣

Outcomes are what matter most! Not necessarily the methods that gain these better outcomes for us.

Often feel the same way when I relive our journey, so much of the trial and error stuff was really just error, but the big thing is that we learnt and improved, which is the name of the game.

Like the wasting grass grazing thing, I'm really glad we did that, just as I'm really glad we learnt from it and kept looking for new stuff to try... one of the big things here is stocking rate and how that has climbed.

I think when Ian came here - @holwellcourtfarm, was that coming up 4 years?? we were grazing 400 sheep and 7 calves - and had no feed on the land to speak of in May after a pretty wet and bountiful year.
This year we are supposedly in drought conditions or "very dry" and have 38 sheep and are cruising along with 130 bovines in 300 paddocks and enough grass to get us to the end of September if it stopped growing today

but yeah, plans are useless in farming 🤣🤣🤠👍


Out of interest pete why did you end up with no grass by may?
Was it down to grazing management at the time rather than animal species?
Or because of sheep?



We've always been fairly balanced with sheep and cattle, but the sheep numbers are growing ahead of the cattle for various reasons,
It's becoming very apparent how much the early flock peg the grass back, but on the other hand the lambs and culls are gone before summer drying out time.
At abit of a cross roads of what we want to do.... not sure lambing lots more ewes is the answer 🤔
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Pretty fed up with it here too.
Brighter today with a drying wind has reduced the mud, but more rain forecast for tomorrow.
Think these heifers should have moved a bit quicker yesterday ☹ Gonna chuck about a bit of seed and see what comes up with the regrowth. Might have to skip this paddock next round.
Bunch of cows not much better today.View attachment 962719
Always looks worse than it really is. Take another photo in a week and then 2 weeks. Ideal opportunity to get some new species in there.
Yes I was going to follow up to say it probably looks worse than it is, and it didn't look quite as bad next day even. They've churned it rather than turn it to soup, if you know what I mean. A previous patch on an awful day they huddled 1 end of the paddock and turned a small area to soup. That'll take a lot more to recover.
Didn't help that some were bulling in this paddock.
sorry all, been concentrating on other things for a couple of days. :rolleyes:

Zoom in close and that's really just trodden in grass with a bit o' mud on it. I bet it'll look way better in a week.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
With Brexit, I was just checking out Irish pricing. But in the past I've order a lot of stuff from Voss, found them really good at that time but heard issues since.

Irish prices tend to be.................. vaseline needed.
Always been good when ive dealt with them up to feb this yr anyway. could do with some more of these screw in insulators from them as i dont know where else to get them and they're ideal for tightening up and wrapping around to continue on another line they grip the polywire snugly so no knots etc needed to spoil the wire.

20210523_194437.jpg

zoom in to see what i mean
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
need a few more sheep on here and some 'cough' better fence management i admit :cautious:
'flood plain field not grazed or used at all last year (a good 365 days ) for one reason and another then grazed hard (but not poached :sneaky:)by sheep Dec/ to end of Jan down to nothing and some obviously trodden in..(all except the rushes which were to big and dry for them )
Then came back the colour green that it is now and i am very pleasantly surprised tbh, i though the under grazing wouldve made it hollow out...
20210523_193144 (2).jpg

btw no fert or anything is ever put on the field..
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Always been good when ive dealt with them up to feb this yr anyway. could do with some more of these screw in insulators from them as i dont know where else to get them and they're ideal for tightening up and wrapping around to continue on another line they grip the polywire snugly so no knots etc needed to spoil the wire.

View attachment 962915
zoom in to see what i mean
I like the wraparound idea, good thinking. I've done a bit of that with those plastic insulated handles, they store quite a bit of spare and then it's there for a rainy day (y)
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Can't wait too see them for bodgespection 🤓🤓

I bought some 19mm ali tube and some ali flat to make runners for my quad..... been sat in a pile for a year.
Trouble is that a poly stake held in one hand to push the fence down as you drive over is pretty easy too
Conduit works great for quads if you get stuck for time. Generally you can find a hole in around the front end somewhere, poke the ends in and pull the top of the tongue up with string, tie off to carrier.

Tec screws to hold the ends secure and Bob is in the family photo
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Pretty fed up with it here too.
Brighter today with a drying wind has reduced the mud, but more rain forecast for tomorrow.
Think these heifers should have moved a bit quicker yesterday ☹ Gonna chuck about a bit of seed and see what comes up with the regrowth. Might have to skip this paddock next round.
Bunch of cows not much better today.View attachment 962719
had another option idea, if the ground is just 'puddled' and grass is still there, might look sick, but should comeback, another option could be to put a small amount of forage rape, as a temporary fix, till the grass sorts itself out.
 

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