Is Food Traceability A Marketing Con?

kiwi pom · Apr 2, 2023

I think it all depends on what the product is, the company involved and perhaps who's asking.
Some things are traceable.

Lowland1 · Apr 2, 2023

Frank-the-Wool said:
We don't usually eat ready meals, but being flat out at the moment my wife had bought a Shepherds Pie from a well known local manufacturer. (I won't name it yet!)

We both commented that it was tainted, my bet was that it was Ram hogget, or worse something older. It was a poor eating experience and would put people off eating lamb if they thought it would taste like this.
I sent the company an email with the batch number and date of manufacture and asked where the meat had come from.
I received the standard reply, offering me a voucher for a free meal. I wrote back and declined.

I was told that all the meat either comes from Wales (company based in Kent) or New Zealand, depending on the season and was pasture fed and traceable back to farm!

I have written back again requesting they tell me whether it was Wales or NZ and what the name of the farm was!! That was on Friday so I will look forward to a reply next week.
I suggested that with the recent bad publicity about dodgy meat they need to use local traceable, pasture fed lamb!

This is a company that prides itself on its environmental credentials so it will be very interesting to see if I get to find out where this meat comes form.

Looking at this again. I thought why on earth would they tell you the name of the farmer. Surely that leaves some poor farmer open to any kind of attack or abuse from any disgruntled customer. If it was sold as a joint or something then there might be a point but when sold in a processed form then I'd say the problem is more in the process than the ingredients. Traceability enables the company to follow any problems in the process or follow up in case of contamination but handing out farmers details to all and sundry isn't a good idea.

Tarw Coch · Apr 2, 2023

Lowland1 said:
Looking at this again. I thought why on earth would they tell you the name of the farmer. Surely that leaves some poor farmer open to any kind of attack or abuse from any disgruntled customer. If it was sold as a joint or something then there might be a point but when sold in a processed form then I'd say the problem is more in the process than the ingredients. Traceability enables the company to follow any problems in the process or follow up in case of contamination but handing out farmers details to all and sundry isn't a good idea.

I’m sure there are good and valid reasons why they won’t or shouldn’t give out the farm details

But without that detail there is no transparency in the claim it’s fully traceable back to farm

It’s fully traceable but you’ll just have to take our word for it

Lowland1 · Apr 2, 2023

Tarw Coch said:
I’m sure there are good and valid reasons why they won’t or shouldn’t give out the farm details

But without that detail there is no transparency in the claim it’s fully traceable back to farm

It’s fully traceable but you’ll just have to take our word for it

I'd say that's how it is. Would you want someone pitching up on your doorstep telling you that the steak or chops they had last night were dodgy and what are you going to do about it?

Ffermer Bach · Apr 2, 2023

Tarw Coch said:
I’m sure there are good and valid reasons why they won’t or shouldn’t give out the farm details

But without that detail there is no transparency in the claim it’s fully traceable back to farm

It’s fully traceable but you’ll just have to take our word for it

I don't think mince can ever be traceable, because it can be contaminated by a small amount of meat, and that can affect a whole batch.

Goweresque · Apr 2, 2023

Lowland1 said:
Looking at this again. I thought why on earth would they tell you the name of the farmer. Surely that leaves some poor farmer open to any kind of attack or abuse from any disgruntled customer. If it was sold as a joint or something then there might be a point but when sold in a processed form then I'd say the problem is more in the process than the ingredients. Traceability enables the company to follow any problems in the process or follow up in case of contamination but handing out farmers details to all and sundry isn't a good idea.

There is a flip side to that though - if you have a really good bit of meat from a supermarket there's no way of finding out where it came from so you can buy more of it either.

Lowland1 · Apr 2, 2023

Goweresque said:
There is a flip side to that though - if you have a really good bit of meat from a supermarket there's no way of finding out where it came from so you can buy more of it either.

Problem is no matter how good something is when it leaves the farm unless you’re putting it on the shelves there’s usually some extra handling/ processing between farm gate and shop. That’s generally where the issues arise.

tullah · Apr 2, 2023

Found farm name on pack of strawberries bought in supermarket . Fresh and tasted like strawberries for a change so searched for phone number and told them best flavour on the market.

Tamar · Apr 2, 2023

Ffermer Bach said:
I don't think mince can ever be traceable, because it can be contaminated by a small amount of meat, and that can affect a whole batch.

....... or even contaminated with the faller in the last race at Taunton

Bury the Trash · Apr 2, 2023

Tarw Coch said:
So where did you say your farm was?
Wales or New Zealand

Brilliant post and just about sums it all up .

Hilly · Apr 2, 2023

Uk red meat ind is corrupt as hell ran bu gangsters , traceability you having a giraffe

Bruce Almighty · Apr 2, 2023

unlacedgecko said:
This seems pertinent

Farmer's View: Time for us to take meat eating quality seriously

I’ve just returned from a fabulous trip to Australia, where it reached 42C before I flew back to -6°C in Scotland – the contrast between the…

www.thescottishfarmer.co.uk

What I didn’t like about Clarkson’s series 2 was his criticism of Australian beef, I’ve been there 3 times and their beef is as good as ours.
Maybe he should have criticised US feedlot beef?

topground · Apr 2, 2023

Hilly said:
Uk red meat ind is corrupt as hell ran bu gangsters , traceability you having a giraffe

Where there’s a hook there’s a crook.

unlacedgecko · Apr 2, 2023

Goweresque said:
There is a flip side to that though - if you have a really good bit of meat from a supermarket there's no way of finding out where it came from so you can buy more of it either.

The US grass fed guys have a saying, "shake the hand that feeds you".

serf · Apr 2, 2023

All this traceability bolox is a nonsense , when their heads are off they not got a clue where stuff comes from ....

Frank-the-Wool · Apr 2, 2023

Lowland1 said:
Looking at this again. I thought why on earth would they tell you the name of the farmer. Surely that leaves some poor farmer open to any kind of attack or abuse from any disgruntled customer. If it was sold as a joint or something then there might be a point but when sold in a processed form then I'd say the problem is more in the process than the ingredients. Traceability enables the company to follow any problems in the process or follow up in case of contamination but handing out farmers details to all and sundry isn't a good idea.

I partly agree with you, but if you warrant your product as being traceable back to the farm of origin then I am sorry but that is it.

They also claim it is Pasture fed. What if it wasn't? I am PFL (pasture For Life) certified, so why should I pay my membership (a bit like RT) and find anyone can make these claims, probably falsely.

Why would a ready meals company based in Kent buy NZ lamb? Or why would it by Welsh, in season.
I completely agree that mince may come from many sources, so should be sold as origin of a number of farms in Wales or NZ.

I sell a lot of lamb and beef direct to butchers, they put my name and farm up in the shops when they have it. It helps to sell it. If there is a problem with the meat, I will stand by it and sort it out.

Traceability by companies like this is a Con, but genuine processors/retailers can use it to their and our benefit.

If it isn't traceable then don't say it is!!!!

kiwi pom · Apr 2, 2023

Lowland1 said:
Looking at this again. I thought why on earth would they tell you the name of the farmer. Surely that leaves some poor farmer open to any kind of attack or abuse from any disgruntled customer. If it was sold as a joint or something then there might be a point but when sold in a processed form then I'd say the problem is more in the process than the ingredients. Traceability enables the company to follow any problems in the process or follow up in case of contamination but handing out farmers details to all and sundry isn't a good idea.

Exactly this. There is traceability for the consumer which only really goes as far as complaining to the place of purchase, then there's traceability from the retailer backwards, in order to investigate why the product failed. The customer may not be made aware of the results or action taken.
Every company is different though and has different standards.

Lowland1 · Apr 3, 2023

Frank-the-Wool said:
I partly agree with you, but if you warrant your product as being traceable back to the farm of origin then I am sorry but that is it.

They also claim it is Pasture fed. What if it wasn't? I am PFL (pasture For Life) certified, so why should I pay my membership (a bit like RT) and find anyone can make these claims, probably falsely.

Why would a ready meals company based in Kent buy NZ lamb? Or why would it by Welsh, in season.
I completely agree that mince may come from many sources, so should be sold as origin of a number of farms in Wales or NZ.

I sell a lot of lamb and beef direct to butchers, they put my name and farm up in the shops when they have it. It helps to sell it. If there is a problem with the meat, I will stand by it and sort it out.

Traceability by companies like this is a Con, but genuine processors/retailers can use it to their and our benefit.

If it isn't traceable then don't say it is!!!!

I don't think they have any statutory duty to tell you much more than they have. You could go through trading standards if you feel that would get you what you want however the truth of this is you bought a ready meal that didn't taste very nice. I'm sure that there is traceability however I'm sure it's for their own use and I don't think they have to tell you anything more than they have let's face it processed food will be using the cheapest possible ingredients with favouring and colouring to keep a consistent product.

Frank-the-Wool · Apr 3, 2023

Lowland1 said:
I don't think they have any statutory duty to tell you much more than they have. You could go through trading standards if you feel that would get you what you want however the truth of this is you bought a ready meal that didn't taste very nice. Don't buy them again.

You may be right, but we don't need end users making claims that cannot be substantiated.
I am selling a high quality product that is traceable to local people.

These people are selling a similar product (and probably buying it cheaper) and claiming that it is the same as mine.
This eventually reflects badly on all genuine suppliers as when people have a bad experience they won't buy lamb, beef or pork etc because it was a bad eating experience. Many won't remember the brand but that it was a Shepherds Pie with lamb in it.

I am not bothered that they won't be able to tell me the name of the farm, but I really would like to know if it came from NZ or Wales and why they don't buy locally.

Lowland1 · Apr 3, 2023

Frank-the-Wool said:
You may be right, but we don't need end users making claims that cannot be substantiated.
I am selling a high quality product that is traceable to local people.

These people are selling a similar product (and probably buying it cheaper) and claiming that it is the same as mine.
This eventually reflects badly on all genuine suppliers as when people have a bad experience they won't buy lamb, beef or pork etc because it was a bad eating experience. Many won't remember the brand but that it was a Shepherds Pie with lamb in it.

I am not bothered that they won't be able to tell me the name of the farm, but I really would like to know if it came from NZ or Wales and why they don't buy locally.

Try trading standards if you really want to push them into telling you the origin. The manufacturer might genuinely think you might be a vegan activist looking for a farmer to torment or maybe they do have something to hide or give them a telephone call and explain your concerns.

Is Food Traceability A Marketing Con?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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