Life after BPS producing food from cattle and sheep.

Treg · Jun 22, 2023

unlacedgecko said:
2000 ewes per labour unit
200 cows per labour unit

Only feed grazed forage (with a few bales for cow wintering on kale).

Only winter breeding sheep. All slaughter lambs off farm by end of Sep. Anything not finished then either sell store or put on tack. Add value by selling breeding stock/premium eating experience meat. (not totally sure I want the fück around of direct sales though).

Only winter slaughter cattle once.

Run a couple of vans and a couple of quad bikes. Keep money in metal to a minimum. Currently cattle have 1/2 a loader tractor with the arable.

Intensify the grazing to grow more grass. Maybe more mixed herbal leys?

Breed functional stock that don't need inputs, particularly labour. Sell anything which needs individual attention. Finish breed the wool off sheep and push litter size.

Possibly some trading sheep?

That's it in a nutshell. Got 4.5yrs left here, so will see what happens. If this doesn't work out we will exit the industry.

Does 1/2 a loader tractor work?
Doesn't it topple over?
All about getting the balance right I suppose

Not seen one on the New toy day thread

Northern territory · Jun 22, 2023

Frank-the-Wool said:
Might work if you don't run any livestock on it. Just top it occasionally.

Even with careful grazing management on heavy wet soils it won't last more than 3 years and the cost of the seed and establishment is high.

Precisely, been saying this all along about the schemes, they are not designed to go along with normal to high stocking rates. Put the lot in or not at all

soapsud · Jun 22, 2023

ollie989898 said:
Dealing with la-di-das isn't your thing yet you reside in Dorset and so are in all probability surrounded by them?

Yes we rent land up near Bath too and sell on this 30-40mile north-south line. I was sympathising with the view that retailing is hard work and that I'm grateful that I have a wife that enjoys the company of customers.

Northern territory · Jun 22, 2023

Kiwi Pete said:
Because being a cow keeper is the absolute pinnacle of "jobs" in my opinion. I'm just the boy with the youngstock at this stage

Plenty to do if you have time, from "doom scrolling" the web to shaking hands with all the trout in the river. What's it worth to wake up happy in a morning?

Do you think keeping young stock rather than cows allows you to keep a higher stocking rate as you have more options when to sell and offload stock.

soapsud · Jun 22, 2023

Frank-the-Wool said:
Might work if you don't run any livestock on it. Just top it occasionally.

Even with careful grazing management on heavy wet soils it won't last more than 3 years and the cost of the seed and establishment is high.

A neighbour tried it and gave up after being failed on inspection. i.e. didn't get paid for the upfront cost so lost out - this is what is bad about prescriptive advise- one size fits all - do this and we'll reimburse you with a bit extra on top for your trouble. Also we're in a low rainfall part of the country and have small windows to get seed established - particular the last few years.

devonbeef · Jun 22, 2023

AndrewM said:
SAM3: Herbal leys What you’ll be paid You’ll receive £382 per hectare per year?

convert all your grassland to herbal leys, you will be getting more money than yoou do currently under bps?

Give it a year or two then there will be stocking rate limits with herbal leys

No wot · Jun 22, 2023

Exmoor Farm said:
Unfortunately I think we’re doomed If Defra continue down this path whilst Scotland, Wales and the EU continue direct support.

Even if we get a lot more efficient, we’re not going to be able to compete against neighbouring countries producing under the real cost of production and against the economies of scale and differing production standards in Australia and New Zealand.

On the SFI handbook thread, I asked Janet if she thought this was fair and she completely dodged the question saying it was above her pay grade and a political matter.

This is exactly the type of thing a farmers union should be lobbying the government about but the NFU are once again missing in action

The irony is , if Goverment put as much enthusiasm into supporting UK Ag with favourable terms when negotiating trade deals as it seems to be doing with unfavourable trade deals , as an industry we could quite happily manage without a great deal of farm support but their mantra seems to be cheap food at all cost and sod domestic production

soapsud · Jun 22, 2023

What do livestock farmers do for soil sampling?
Is there a saving here?
We paid £16 per 2 ha field (where the soils vary) for the basic which shows NPK and SOM% levels. The more expensive option over £50.
The SFI handbook offers £2 a go and £95 for the agreement.

Wood field · Jun 22, 2023

soapsud said:
What do livestock farmers do for soil sampling?
Is there a saving here?
We paid £16 per 2 ha field (where the soils vary) for the basic which shows NPK and SOM% levels. The more expensive option over £50.
The SFI handbook offers £2 a go and £95 for the agreement.

Never bothered in the past, but trying to get our mowing fields more productive, we had soil sample ( and forage) through feed rep
Soil was £30 for a 15 acre meadow
Hay / forage was a free test

livestock 1 · Jun 22, 2023

The sfi for disadvantaged and severely disadvantaged land is very limited in options

livestock 1 · Jun 22, 2023

livestock 1 · Jun 22, 2023

Two years at this was all rushes. Do we keep going or give up trying to improve?

Hilly · Jun 22, 2023

livestock 1 said:
Two years at this was all rushes. Do we keep going or give up trying to improve?

Keep going if you can , fuk fashion

Wood field · Jun 22, 2023

livestock 1 said:
Two years at this was all rushes. Do we keep going or give up trying to improve?

Keep at it , that’s what we are doing , getting rushy areas more productive.
With or without subs it improves our grazing

J 1177 · Jun 22, 2023

No wot said:
If you can come up with a business structure that allows you to cope without sub , do so good on you but I fear most of us will farm until financially we can no longer

Think your probably right. Im lucky ìn 1 respct iv had a bonus come off recently that will see me through a few years without bps then iv got borrowings for shed building, replacing knackered gear paid off in a couple of years.
That gives me the oppertunity to plod on longer than i maybes shoul because after this point if there is no turn in fortunes for uk ag i cant see how im going to invest or push on father.
Its maybes the wrong thing to do and im subing cheap food but i dont know what else to do.

Top Tip. · Jun 22, 2023

It’s going to be very interesting to see how many folk vote with their feet and get out of livestock farming. Will there be dispersal’s this backend? For livestock farming to be profitable a lot of sheep and cattle have to go off for prices to rise to a sustainable level. You can only do so much by efficiency and cost cutting, the price of the end product has to rise as well.

Hilly · Jun 22, 2023

Top Tip. said:
It’s going to be very interesting to see how many folk vote with their feet and get out of livestock farming. Will there be dispersal’s this backend? For livestock farming to be profitable a lot of sheep and cattle have to go off for prices to rise to a sustainable level. You can only do so much by efficiency and cost cutting, the price of the end product has to rise as well.

Aye and you know what happens when farm gate prices rise ! Suppliers say aye aye we will have that thanks ….

livestock 1 · Jun 22, 2023

For what I’m hearing there will be dispersals
A lot of farms haven’t made decent profits for years

steveR · Jun 22, 2023

AndrewM said:
SAM3: Herbal leys What you’ll be paid You’ll receive £382 per hectare per year?

convert all your grassland to herbal leys, you will be getting more money than yoou do currently under bps?

It will all depend on how long you can keep the leys going (to the satisfaction of the Inspector) as to how good they will be in my experience....

I am leaning to using mine purely for conservation!! I am afraid that moving mobs of sheep or cattle every 5 mins does not appeal, or work for me here.

Old apprentice · Jun 22, 2023

livestock 1 said:
View attachment 1120053

Has it had fertilizer not just lime. There is a concern to me that there is a variety of grass in that picture that grows into tusoks which is a strong unpalatable for livestock.

Life after BPS producing food from cattle and sheep.

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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