Remoaners / rejoiners aren't all honest, and many are afraid to answer awkward questions...

yoki

Member
So that would have been as detailed as your plan would have been?
There were two options, stay in or leave, there was no detailed plan for either.

I'm only a pleb, I don't make plans or decisions for the country, but I was given a choice which was my own decision.

I choose leave, and truly hand on heart have no regrets whatsoever.

Again, apologies to the OP for going off-topic, I don't imagine he wants this to simply be a re-run of the brexit thread, which is what it seems to be getting dragged inexorably towards unfortunately.
 
There were two options, stay in or leave, there was no detailed plan for either.

I'm only a pleb, I don't make plans or decisions for the country, but I was given a choice which was my own decision.

I choose leave, and truly hand on heart have no regrets whatsoever.

Again, apologies to the OP for going off-topic, I don't imagine he wants this to simply be a re-run of the brexit thread, which is what it seems to be getting dragged inexorably towards unfortunately.
I merely responded to your comments on my neutral position on the topic.
I was simply intrigued by your thoughts on the type of brexit that was expected.

I didn't vote to remain, but I always admitted that I had zero clue what voting leave would bring, so I cannot be disappointed.
 
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Widgetone

Member
Trade
Location
Westish Suffolk
Been trying hard not to take the bait, but-

Don't want to come across as a bitter remoaner ( I'm over it mainly ) but seems to me that this thread is absurd.
Leavers have rarely accepted any responsibility on here for any downside or put forward any suggestions how to get Brexit done to our advantage, just pointed fingers and said it will get better one day sometime soonish...

Care to elaborate, or is it best to evade the arising issues of the days/weeks/years?
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
Been trying hard not to take the bait, but-

Don't want to come across as a bitter remoaner ( I'm over it mainly ) but seems to me that this thread is absurd.
Leavers have rarely accepted any responsibility on here for any downside or put forward any suggestions how to get Brexit done to our advantage, just pointed fingers and said it will get better one day sometime soonish...

Care to elaborate, or is it best to evade the arising issues of the days/weeks/years?
The only thing I'm guilty of is voting to leave the EU.
The rest is down to those in charge of being totally obstructive and/or incompetent.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Why not?
There's a difference between rising standards and falling ones.
People notice falling ones much more quickly.
Why won't you answer the question, what are you afraid of...? Should the same standards apply to both sides of the discussion?

As I understand it that is exactly the argument made by leavers to explain the lack of brexit benefits. So the answer is it is the case.
Not really; have a go at answering the question in post number 1. (y)

So that would have been as detailed as your plan would have been?
Hang on, when people such as myself - and lots of others - claimed during the referendum campaign that the EU had worked itself into and had influence upon a huge part of our nation's law and administration, that was denied by the Remain camp. They, nationally and on TFF, claimed that the EU was not pervasive, had only the lightest touch and slightest influence on our affairs and that such claims were hyperbolic.

Of course Remain as a group were entirely honest and never set out to mislead anyone in the campaign. So how much of a plan - based on the Remain claims of hardly any EU influence - would a trusting Leaver have thought necessary? :)

Was that the experts that said instant recession, mass unemployment etc etc, or perhaps they were like the experts that predict the weather . No wonder folk don't believe them because they are sh!t,
Facts not helpful to them are unlikely to be responded to. (y)
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
Not really; have a go at answering the question in post number 1. (y)
My interpretation was that you asked why isn't it the case that argument is being made - I said that is the case. That is exactly the argument being made.

If you mean why aren't those who were in favour of remaining aren't allowing time for the alleged benefits to appear then I think the answer to that is the act of Brexit was to leave the world's largest trading bloc. By cutting off a large export market with promises to diverge and add costs to exporters it is not clear how and where growth will come from. Presumably back in the 1970s, upon joining the EEC, that joining an immediately adjacent trading bloc that the source of the hoped for benefits were more obvious.

Edit - as we see things like dismal growth forecasts from new trade deals, and roll over agreements only equally what we had as EU members, as we see UKCA be scrapped in favour of CE, then the alleged sources of possible benefits gets less and less.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
My interpretation was that you asked why isn't it the case that argument is being made - I said that is the case. That is exactly the argument being made.

If you mean why aren't those who were in favour of remaining aren't allowing time for the alleged benefits to appear then I think the answer to that is the act of Brexit was to leave the world's largest trading bloc. By cutting off a large export market with promises to diverge and add costs to exporters it is not clear how and where growth will come from. Presumably back in the 1970s, upon joining the EEC, that joining an immediately adjacent trading bloc that the source of the hoped for benefits were more obvious.

Edit - as we see things like dismal growth forecasts from new trade deals, and roll over agreements only equally what we had as EU members, as we see UKCA be scrapped in favour of CE, then the alleged sources of possible benefits gets less and less.
The worlds largest trading bloc is NAFTA; NAFTA GDP = $24.8trn, EU GDP = $17.4trn . (y)

And then the actual distortion begins... we have not 'cut off' access to the market, any more than the EU has cut off trade with Japan, the US, Canada, Australia etc.. if you need to resort to distortion and untruth, you haven't got a very strong case.

UK growth is forecast to rise, following the massive spend on CV19 the money set aside for post-Brexit wasn't there, and yet the UK avoided recession while countries in the EU didn't. We certainly had higher than wanted inflation though, but not as high as some countries in the EU.

Anyway, I asked for and have still to receive an answer to a simple question; to make it easier I'll rephrase it: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable? :)
 
Why won't you answer the question, what are you afraid of...? Should the same standards apply to both sides of the discussion?


Not really; have a go at answering the question in post number 1. (y)


Hang on, when people such as myself - and lots of others - claimed during the referendum campaign that the EU had worked itself into and had influence upon a huge part of our nation's law and administration, that was denied by the Remain camp. They, nationally and on TFF, claimed that the EU was not pervasive, had only the lightest touch and slightest influence on our affairs and that such claims were hyperbolic.

Of course Remain as a group were entirely honest and never set out to mislead anyone in the campaign. So how much of a plan - based on the Remain claims of hardly any EU influence - would a trusting Leaver have thought necessary? :)


Facts not helpful to them are unlikely to be responded to. (y)
I did answer post 1.
I refer you to it.
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
The worlds largest trading bloc is NAFTA; NAFTA GDP = $24.8trn, EU GDP = $17.4trn . (y)

And then the actual distortion begins... we have not 'cut off' access to the market, any more than the EU has cut off trade with Japan, the US, Canada, Australia etc.. if you need to resort to distortion and untruth, you haven't got a very strong case.

UK growth is forecast to rise, following the massive spend on CV19 the money set aside for post-Brexit wasn't there, and yet the UK avoided recession while countries in the EU didn't. We certainly had higher than wanted inflation though, but not as high as some countries in the EU.

Anyway, I asked for and have still to receive an answer to a simple question; to make it easier I'll rephrase it: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable? :)
I mean... it was an answer. That you disagree with an answer doesn't make it less of an answer.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
I did answer post 1.
I refer you to it.
You're running scared, you haven't answered, and anyone reading through the posts can see that. But prove me wrong, do it 'again' now. And here it is again in easy-to-understand language: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable?

I mean... it was an answer. That you disagree with an answer doesn't make it less of an answer.
No you didn't, you prevaricated. Here is the question, it isn't a trick or a trap it's a simple value judgement, have another go: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable?
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
No you didn't, you prevaricated. Here is the question, it isn't a trick or a trap it's a simple value judgement, have another go: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable?
Yes.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Come on chaps, we are nearly up to post 100 and you are running away from answering the question in post 1...

Nice try, let's give you another go in even simpler terms, and see if you are brave enough to write that again: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards?
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
Come on chaps, we are nearly up to post 100 and you are running away from answering the question in post 1...


Nice try, let's give you another go in even simpler terms, and see if you are brave enough to write that again: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards?
#thatsthejoke

Anyway - the answer I gave isn't actually my opinion (which is in brief that Brexit won't be that damaging but has been a waste of time. We are best off in the single market but out of the EU political machinery), it was trying to give the 'remoaner' (as you put it) view. I genuinely think the reason people aren't wanting to give Brexit time to work is because it really is not obvious where the benefits are going to come from, which is not the case when the UK joined the EEC.

As for your second question, yes we should always strive to be working from a common truth.

This is a perplexing thread. Do you really think it is worthwhile to write these types of threads and use language like 'remoaner'? Where Brexit is concerned there have been mistruths on both sides, not least from the Leave campaign.
 
You're running scared, you haven't answered, and anyone reading through the posts can see that. But prove me wrong, do it 'again' now. And here it is again in easy-to-understand language: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable?


No you didn't, you prevaricated. Here is the question, it isn't a trick or a trap it's a simple value judgement, have another go: should both sides in this discussion be judged by the same objective standards, or only on terms that they find acceptable?
This is a forum not a court.
You are not a judge.
Insults don't help your case.
I don't get to judge standards.
Nor do you.
 

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