Remoaners / rejoiners aren't all honest, and many are afraid to answer awkward questions...

[Danllan]

Here is the first one of oh so many, which I have asked many times on TFF and have not yet had a single response to, it is always sidestepped, do your best ladies...

When people against joining the EEC, complained of seeing no economic benefit, just price rises and more bureaucracy etc., for many years they were told it would take more time to see a benefit, this went on into / through the 1980s, and that they shouldn't be so short-termist; why isn't that the case on leaving the EU?*


*I hope that none of us, regardless of political preference, are going to argue the toss about the EC / EEC / EU nomenclature; we joined one and it morphed to the others.

 

[yoki]

............. the EC / EEC / EU nomenclature; we joined one and it morphed to the others.

You forgot CM right at the start.

Which in my opinion is important, as initially it was sold to the people as being about trade only, thus the name, "Common Market".

 

[robs1]

We weren't told about, single currency, free movement or superstate, yet at least some of that is in the original agreements. As Ive said many times as long as we get a vote on those then fair enough it's the sneaking in bit by bit that made me vote out and not once doubted it yet

 

[Ashtree]

Oh dear…

 

[red]

Interestingly Australia are very, very keen on getting a free trade deal with a huge, stable, middle-class consumer market - the very market that we're told is not worth bothering with, even though it's on our doorstep. At the same time, the big gain (apart from the flood of immigrants) from a trade deal with India is that it will apparently lock us out of the EU forever.

 

[Henarar]

as initially it was mis sold to the people as being about trade only, thus the name, "Common Market".

put that right for you, do you think there would be a claim

 

[Exfarmer]

One of the many facts that so many hard right Brexiteers love to ignore though is that so many of the changes they decry so frequently is that they were driven through by Maggie Thatcher in her dream of enlarging Europe as a Bulwark against a resurgent Russia if it occurred.
She was pretty foresighted on such matters and I think the Ukraine would not be in the position that it is now if she had a free rein in European reforms

 

[Ashtree]

One of the many facts that so many hard right Brexiteers love to ignore though is that so many of the changes they decry so frequently is that they were driven through by Maggie Thatcher in her dream of enlarging Europe as a Bulwark against a resurgent Russia if it occurred.
She was pretty foresighted on such matters and I think the Ukraine would not be in the position that it is now if she had a free rein in European reforms

And the funny thing is, about the only dick stiffener that works for these Brexiteers you mention, is thoughts of Maggie. Bless ‘em…

 

[M-J-G]

I'm just happy that all the EU red tape and restrictions have gone

 

[Danllan]

You forgot CM right at the start.

Which in my opinion is important, as initially it was sold to the people as being about trade only, thus the name, "Common Market".

The Common Market was just the vernacular of the time, it wasn't a name that the then EEC claimed, so I haven't used it since it was merely an informal - if nonetheless misleading - term used over here.

 

[Danllan]

Interestingly Australia are very, very keen on getting a free trade deal with a huge, stable, middle-class consumer market - the very market that we're told is not worth bothering with, even though it's on our doorstep. At the same time, the big gain (apart from the flood of immigrants) from a trade deal with India is that it will apparently lock us out of the EU forever.

Well, it took five posts to get the first blatant lie, I was expecting (hoping!) it would take longer, but here it is.

Nobody I am aware of has ever stated that the European / EU market is not worth bothering about. It certainly has been referred to as declining in importance and can be seen to have both a diminishing share of world and UK trade, I have done so elsewhere using EU stat's. But it is an important global market.

What I, and almost all other people wanting Brexit, did argue was that the constitutional implications of membership and, worse, continued membership were detrimental to our national interest in terms of ever more loss of sovereignty.

That a country within the EU cannot be sovereign is something that cannot be argued with, the ECJ, the EC and the EP all tell us this unequivocally - as, after a great deal of work, has been admitted by some on here who emphatically denied it for years.

Whether you think that is a bad thing or not is entirely subjective; I think it is bad, you may not and that's fine, it is your prerogative to have your own opinions. But not to be open about it, and to pretend that it isn't the case and that it wasn't a massive factor influencing people to vote to leave, would be dishonest.

But here's something we really were told - before and even after the UK joined the then EEC - and which you can find any amount of evidence to support , should wish to be convinced. The UK's voters were repeatedly told that there would be no loss of sovereignty on joining the EEC...

 

[JimAndy]

using "remoaner" as the very first word of your post, yea i can tell this is going to be a fair and well balanced chat about what "Lies" were told by who and who trying to rewrite the past. by the very first word being a Insult.

so enjoy the echo chamber , i'll stay clear

 

[caveman]

using "remoaner" as the very first word of your post, yea i can tell this is going to be a fair and well balanced chat about what "Lies" were told by who and who trying to rewrite the past. by the very first word being a Insult.

so enjoy the echo chamber , i'll stay clear

"Remoaners" (Plural).
Don't take it personally.
Your not the only one.

Mr Gammon.

 

[tepapa]

There were obviously pro's and con's to being a member of the EU.

Why is it hard for people to understand that some people, just over half the population that voted, considered the con's to out weight the pro's?

People considered free movement to let citizens go abroad easily, large market on our door step to sell to etc was outweighed by EU rules and control, open borders, unelected EU parliament etc. It doesn't make the positives of being a member wrong and non beneficial.

 

[yoki]

using "remoaner" as the very first word of your post, yea i can tell this is going to be a fair and well balanced chat about what "Lies" were told by who and who trying to rewrite the past. by the very first word being a Insult.

so enjoy the echo chamber , i'll stay clear

Interesting to see differing attitudes between the two sides even towards the terms used to describe them.

A "brexiter" was the term initially used to describe someone in favour of leaving, however it was the remain side that morphed it in to the term "brexiteer" as a swipe at leavers based on their fabricated analogy that everyone that supported leaving the EU only did so in the desire of reverting back to the good old days of the British Empire and brexiteer played in to this analogy by conjuring up images of charging bravely headlong in to battle.

So actually "remoaner" as a play on "remainer", and "brexiteer" as a play on "brexiter" share a similar background in how they came about and more importantly, the implication behind them .

Of-course the big difference is that leavers simply ignored any implied insult to the degree that the term has now simply become an everyday part of the vernacular in the UK, whereas remainers being the sensitive delicate little snowflakes that they are and always looking for someone or something to control look after them, run squealing like little bltches at the merest mention of the word.

Which pretty much serves to prove it's appropriate nature!

 

[yoki]

The UK's voters were repeatedly told that there would be no loss of sovereignty on joining the EEC...

And indeed during the run up to the referendum itself, we were still continually told that the "leave" assertion that so many of our rules and regulations came from Brussels was total nonsense and anyone who dared to give it as a valid reason for voting out was merely some sort of paranoid idiot.

But then after the referendum, lo and behold, we were idiots for voting out because did we not realise how much of our legislation and regulation came from Brussels and was shared with the rest of the EU, and what sort of mess we had voted to create by wanting to cut all those ties.

Which was actually correct, but it says something that "remain" were only able to start telling the truth after they had lost anyway!

 

[red]

Interesting to see differing attitudes between the two sides even towards the terms used to describe them.

A "brexiter" was the term initially used to describe someone in favour of leaving, however it was the remain side that morphed it in to the term "brexiteer" as a swipe at leavers based on their fabricated analogy that everyone that supported leaving the EU only did so in the desire of reverting back to the good old days of the British Empire and brexiteer played in to this analogy by conjuring up images of charging bravely headlong in to battle.

So actually "remoaner" as a play on "remainer", and "brexiteer" as a play on "brexiter" share a similar background in how they came about and more importantly, the implication behind them .

Of-course the big difference is that leavers simply ignored any implied insult to the degree that the term has now simply become an everyday part of the vernacular in the UK, whereas remainers being the sensitive delicate little snowflakes that they are and always looking for someone or something to control look after them, run squealing like little bltches at the merest mention of the word.

Which pretty much serves to prove it's appropriate nature!

Actually, you're much more likely to see the term ‘Brexidiot’ used in common parlance nowadays and as it turned out it's a much more appropriate moniker.

 

[Muck Spreader]

 

[Exfarmer]

Interesting to see differing attitudes between the two sides even towards the terms used to describe them.

A "brexiter" was the term initially used to describe someone in favour of leaving, however it was the remain side that morphed it in to the term "brexiteer" as a swipe at leavers based on their fabricated analogy that everyone that supported leaving the EU only did so in the desire of reverting back to the good old days of the British Empire and brexiteer played in to this analogy by conjuring up images of charging bravely headlong in to battle.

So actually "remoaner" as a play on "remainer", and "brexiteer" as a play on "brexiter" share a similar background in how they came about and more importantly, the implication behind them .

Of-course the big difference is that leavers simply ignored any implied insult to the degree that the term has now simply become an everyday part of the vernacular in the UK, whereas remainers being the sensitive delicate little snowflakes that they are and always looking for someone or something to control look after them, run squealing like little bltches at the merest mention of the word.

Which pretty much serves to prove it's appropriate nature!

you can't have it both ways complaining the Brexiteer was a pejorative and then complain the Remainers find Remoaner pejorative

I did not realise how many Brexiteers took offence at the term and I apologise to all those poor leavers, weak souls who have taken offence at my unkind comments

Actually, you're much more likely to see the term ‘Brexidiot’ used in common parlance nowadays and as it turned out it's a much more appropriate moniker.

careful wash your mouth out you will offend them !

 

[Exfarmer]

And indeed during the run up to the referendum itself, we were still continually told that the "leave" assertion that so many of our rules and regulations came from Brussels was total nonsense and anyone who dared to give it as a valid reason for voting out was merely some sort of paranoid idiot.

But then after the referendum, lo and behold, we were idiots for voting out because did we not realise how much of our legislation and regulation came from Brussels and was shared with the rest of the EU, and what sort of mess we had voted to create by wanting to cut all those ties.

Which was actually correct, but it says something that "remain" were only able to start telling the truth after they had lost anyway!

And can you show me a long list of rules and regulations we have abandoned since entering this glorious upland of leave?