farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
and after multiple different answers have been provided....
AHL2 - Winter Bird Food
- Thread starter Stephensonlouis
- Start date
- Location
- Dorset/Wilts
FMDAQ sectionand after multiple different answers have been provided....
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
huh? Frequently mentioned dumb ass questions?
- Location
- Northumberland
The bit I find embarrassing is that suitable wedge of cash is offered in lieu of a crop and then public debate ensues about the possibilities to retain the cash crop. I thought the ability to displace a break-even break crop was enough of a sweetener.
Cards on table: these ahl2 etc discussions just compound the whole 'SFI is a lot more attractive to arable enterprises' problem. 'Money for something you're already doing' only applies selectively.
- Location
- Dorset/Wilts
Frequent Multiple Different Answered Question.
Roles off the tongue
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
The public would be entirely lost on this entire thread.
AHL2 is not offered in lieu of a crop it is to pay for the provision of a wildlife service.
AHL2 doesnt stack up all that great as a break crop.. you have to either follow it with a spring crop, most of which are not worth planting, or do what Clive is proposing but that requires 2 drillings and is fraught with risk if the weather does not cooperate.
Aside from a few token bits for shooting purposes I cant think of anyone who would be getting paid money for AHL2 that they are "already doing"
- Location
- S.E
^^^this
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I suppose the various posts on this thread are trying to establish how this wildlife service should and can be delivered within the context of growing the AHL2 'crop' that is delivering the service and other conflicting demands on the land allocated: ie cash crops in rotation.
- Location
- North Yorkshire
In the first quote you’re talking about S Barley/ potatoes/ maize and the 2nd quote you’re talking about linseed. Have they actually ruled out linseed?
definitely worth asking DEFRA top brass on this.
I have re-read the section:
How to establish and maintain winter bird food on arable and horticultural land (AHL2)
andAHL2: Winter bird food on arable and horticultural land
and I believe sowing a spring crop after the birds have cleared the seed by March is completely justifiable. As I read it, the summer flowering aspect can refer to the flowering period in the summer of planting not the following summer. Sowing six species in July after Barley would easily flower by late August. I have Kings Universal Mix sown here on 15th of July that has flowered from mid August until mid November. Most has now set seed. I will achieve the aim of AHL2 by providing seed until 28th of Feb. Theres is no mention of termination of the blocks, so no binding commitment after that February end date. The birds are happy, thats all that matters.
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farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
The gamble is JFDI is you could be ordered to repay 3 years of payments.....
Hindsight
Member
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I have followed this thread with great interest especially the ingenuity of farmers - shows advisers aren't much cop! As I started out assuming AHL2 was the SFI equivalent of AB9 in CS. And that AB9 had a specific prescription sow in Spring with establishment prior to June 15th and then retain over winter until end of February, I unfortunately keep referring to this comparison.
sorry i edited my post. you are correct.The gamble is JFDI is you could be ordered to repay 3 years of payments.....
Mixedupfarmer
Member
- Location
- Norfolk
Trouble is, it doesn't really pay enough money to do it like this, and follow with a crappy spring sown crop (now BPS is gone).
Little squeak
Member
- Location
- Lancashire
I have just read this with interest, I Emailed RPA too and asked the same question and got the opposite reply. Not sure what to do now, the whole thing is a mess if the RPA who are running the system cannot even agree the rules between themselves.
Mixedupfarmer
Member
- Location
- Norfolk
Don't know why DEFRA don't stop pissing about, and just pay £1000/ha+ for this option, for a whole season (like AB9 was), so that it benefits the wildlife. The whole thing is trying to be done on the cheap, uptake will be poor, and wildlife and farmers will suffer.
- Location
- S.E
I have emailed them back to see if it specifically is allowed
- Location
- West Sussex
I’ve read the first 5 pages of this thread. If anyone thinks they’ll sail through an inspection by showing the RPA a field of spuds or Linseed for AHL2 in June is crazy.
You need to look at the CSS AB9 prescriptions as a starting point because this is all the RPA know. They expect diverse mix to be sown, flower and produce plenty of seed. Any vast deviation from this and you need to be ready to defend/justify your actions hard.
You might get away with resowing in the spring to improve the flowering of the mix but if it looks like a cash crop that you’re going to harvest then no way are you going to get away with that!
You’re also taking a big risk that you can produce enough quantity and diversity of seed by sowing in the summer. The weather is never perfect.
If we want decent paying environmental options long term then we need to play by the rules. They will pay £732/ha but they expect you to forego a cash crop in that year.
The way I look at it, sow SAM2 winter cover crop in summer 1 £129/ha. Follow with spring sown AHL2 bird mix £732/ha, top up with IPM4 no insecticides £45/ha and possibly IPM3 Companion crop £55/ha.
Total £961/ha.
The bird mix will flower in the summer, produces seed in the winter, destroy and follow with spring barley after 12months then repeat. Very good payment and 100% compliant.
You need to look at the CSS AB9 prescriptions as a starting point because this is all the RPA know. They expect diverse mix to be sown, flower and produce plenty of seed. Any vast deviation from this and you need to be ready to defend/justify your actions hard.
You might get away with resowing in the spring to improve the flowering of the mix but if it looks like a cash crop that you’re going to harvest then no way are you going to get away with that!
You’re also taking a big risk that you can produce enough quantity and diversity of seed by sowing in the summer. The weather is never perfect.
If we want decent paying environmental options long term then we need to play by the rules. They will pay £732/ha but they expect you to forego a cash crop in that year.
The way I look at it, sow SAM2 winter cover crop in summer 1 £129/ha. Follow with spring sown AHL2 bird mix £732/ha, top up with IPM4 no insecticides £45/ha and possibly IPM3 Companion crop £55/ha.
Total £961/ha.
The bird mix will flower in the summer, produces seed in the winter, destroy and follow with spring barley after 12months then repeat. Very good payment and 100% compliant.
Little squeak
Member
- Location
- Lancashire
For anyone who had trouble believing me. If you cannot believe this what option CAN you believe. I have removed my name and the name of the person who replied as it was an Email specifically to me
You
SBI:
Business Name:
Our ref: SFI FULL (1.0) + CRM-3663971-F9P0Z0
Dear
Thank you for your email on 24 October 2023 about your SFI23 agreement.
I can confirm the answer to your question, "Could you inform me under the rules of the scheme could I grow a crop of spring barley then after the field had been cleared in August, sow winter bird food (AHL2) leaving it until I re sowed spring barley again in the following Spring?" is yes.
Also, there isn't a minimum time it has to be left in the ground to get paid for this option, as long as the rules are complied with for the actions.
What you need to do
You don’t need to do anything unless you disagree with contents of this email. If so, please contact us to discuss this.
If you have any questions about this email
You can email [email protected] or call us on 03000 200 301 (Monday to Friday, 8.30am to 5pm). Please tell us your SBI, which is at the top of this email.
Where you can find more information
You can find the most up-to-date information about the Sustainable Farming Incentive 2023 at Sustainable Farming Incentive: Scheme Guidance.
Yours sincerely
Sustainable Farming Incentive Operations
You
SBI:
Business Name:
Our ref: SFI FULL (1.0) + CRM-3663971-F9P0Z0
Dear
Thank you for your email on 24 October 2023 about your SFI23 agreement.
I can confirm the answer to your question, "Could you inform me under the rules of the scheme could I grow a crop of spring barley then after the field had been cleared in August, sow winter bird food (AHL2) leaving it until I re sowed spring barley again in the following Spring?" is yes.
Also, there isn't a minimum time it has to be left in the ground to get paid for this option, as long as the rules are complied with for the actions.
What you need to do
You don’t need to do anything unless you disagree with contents of this email. If so, please contact us to discuss this.
If you have any questions about this email
You can email [email protected] or call us on 03000 200 301 (Monday to Friday, 8.30am to 5pm). Please tell us your SBI, which is at the top of this email.
Where you can find more information
You can find the most up-to-date information about the Sustainable Farming Incentive 2023 at Sustainable Farming Incentive: Scheme Guidance.
Yours sincerely
Sustainable Farming Incentive Operations
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Thank you for posting that. That's looks pretty definitive to me. Well done.