AHL2 - Winter Bird Food

[Humble Village Farmer]

I emailed the RPA and have now had confirmation that you cannot plant crops such as s barley/potatoes/maize in the spring following AHL2 as it is a full year option.
I think this is a real shame as it rules out this option for tens of thousands of hectares imo.
I think the full year is beyond the aims of the 'winter bird food' requirement but that's what they have said.

Surely the aim of this is to provide bird food for one season per year?

 

[Zippy768]

I emailed the RPA and have now had confirmation that you cannot plant crops such as s barley/potatoes/maize in the spring following AHL2 as it is a full year option.
I think this is a real shame as it rules out this option for tens of thousands of hectares imo.
I think the full year is beyond the aims of the 'winter bird food' requirement but that's what they have said.

And this is the ridiculousness of the thing.
These "options" are accompanied by a rather vague set of aims and purposes.
We are being told that one just needs to achieve the "aim".
Clive is continually banging the drum of "thinking outside the box" and the basic prescriptions will mean farmers can think for themselves in how they achieve it.

Clearly this is not the case. Maybe a case of the RPA just offering enough rope.....

 

[BenAdamsAgri]

How to establish and maintain winter bird food on arable and horticultural land (AHL2)​

What you’re aiming to achieve​

The aim of AHL2 is that there are areas of winter bird food that produce a supply of small seeds for smaller farmland birds from late autumn until late winter.

Late autumn until late winter will usually include November, December, January and February, but this may vary according to your location and setting.

*Nowhere here does it say anything about flowering plants in the summer*

The purpose of this is to:
• provide food resources for farmland birds, especially in late autumn and winter
• encourage flowering plants in the summer, which will benefit insects including bumblebees, solitary bees, butterflies and hoverflies
• support an IPM approach if located close to cropped areas

 

[farmerm]

The purpose of this is to:
• provide food resources for farmland birds, especially in late autumn and winter
• encourage flowering plants in the summer, which will benefit insects including bumblebees, solitary bees, butterflies and hoverflies
• support an IPM approach if located close to cropped areas

Given the way the book is written you could argue aims are binding, purposes are none binding.... but the RPA are judge and jury, if they rule that purpose of encouraging flowing plants is a binding part of the aim then it is.

 

[Hindsight]

The purpose of this is to:
• provide food resources for farmland birds, especially in late autumn and winter
• encourage flowering plants in the summer, which will benefit insects including bumblebees, solitary bees, butterflies and hoverflies
• support an IPM approach if located close to cropped areas

Isn't the clue in the months for the two components. Food is Late October, November, December, January, February. Flowering plants is June, jy, August. Those periods equating to the four seasons as defined in the SFI guidance handbook. Sowing in July August to flower in summer months it must be present until following August 31st. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting the English. Cheers

 

[BenAdamsAgri]

Isn't the clue in the months for the two components. Food is Late October, November, December, January, February. Flowering plants is June, jy, August. Those periods equating to the four seasons as defined in the SFI guidance handbook. Sowing in July August to flower in summer months it must be present until following August 31st. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting the English. Cheers

I agree, I think planting in Late July is pushing it without planting again in the spring to achieve flowering aims as Clive is doing

 

[Against_the_grain]

I agree, I think planting in Late July is pushing it without planting again in the spring to achieve flowering aims as Clive is doing

Im suggesting a spring flowering cash crop such as spring linseed following July planted AHL2. As you have once again pointed out above one of the purposes is to 'encourage' flowering plants in the spring. Id argue that planting AHL2 lets me plant a crop such as Spring linseed and provide summer flowering. If not ill just leave the ground on the plough over winter and plant spring barley.

 

[Against_the_grain]

Isn't the clue in the months for the two components. Food is Late October, November, December, January, February. Flowering plants is June, jy, August. Those periods equating to the four seasons as defined in the SFI guidance handbook. Sowing in July August to flower in summer months it must be present until following August 31st. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting the English. Cheers

I think the problem is - as much as I am all for a hands off approach -it just doesnt work when you are trying to run a business to a prescription where failing the unknown interpretation could cost 100s of thousands of pounds.

 

[WRXppp]

I agree, I think planting in Late July is pushing it without planting again in the spring to achieve flowering aims as Clive is doing

A very dry Jul/Aug or Apr/May could see neither outcome achieved.
having just over a year ago come out of ELS/HLS, looked at mid tier and seen how prescriped it is SFI if very fluffy with dates and actual things you need to do, I always kept my pollen and nectar old mix plot for the year that a new one was being established so if it was a dry spring I had it to fall back onto, wild bird mixes also had chicory and teasel included so they did two winters, I think they have given more free rein as we all know our farms better than any bod with a clipboard, you can sow the same mix on 4 plots across the farm and they all look different just like different fields have different weed profiles/problems. The old ELS/HLS mid tier mixes had lots of cereals due to that being in the prescription so an August sow just wouldn’t of worked and I’m also sure it had sow in spring and a date to be sown by so all the elements of the mix could get to maximum seed production, the ideal option would be a coupled 2 year option of summer sown cover, spring sown WBM followed with a summer nectar crop of say borage, phecilia, berseam clover then into wheat.

 

[Hindsight]

I think the problem is - as much as I am all for a hands off approach -it just doesnt work when you are trying to run a business to a prescription where failing the unknown interpretation could cost 100s of thousands of pounds.

My concern with your suggested plan of a cash crop of Linseed (with companion?) is the purpose says flowers through the summer months, that is June, July and August. Linseed flowers for 4 weeks maximum sometime during June July.

 

[Against_the_grain]

The alternative is spring barley which won't provide much for the pollinators.

 

[Try to succeed]

I have to ask: Did you guys honestly think it was credible to have a cash crop either side of a winter hoovering up decent taxpayer money?

It's embarrassing in the public domain and gives the impression there's loads of free money for all sectors.

How is it embarrassing getting an option to stack up, whilst still growing food? Both apparent public goods. It’s making something work in business. What’s actually embarrassing is the way public money is squandered pretty much every where you look in the public domain. I’m not embarrassed trying to make that option fit into my business and benefit my local environment whilst doing so.

 

[Try to succeed]

How does that companion crop aspect work then? It can be stacked on this option outside of the winter months. A companion crop by definition companions a cash crop?

 

[farmerm]

How does that companion crop aspect work then? It can be stacked on this option outside of the winter months. A companion crop by definition companions a cash crop?

Companion crop has to be established with or in an arable crop.. so your companion crop could be in a spring crop following a (spring sown) AHL2.

 

[Try to succeed]

I emailed the RPA and have now had confirmation that you cannot plant crops such as s barley/potatoes/maize in the spring following AHL2 as it is a full year option.
I think this is a real shame as it rules out this option for tens of thousands of hectares imo.
I think the full year is beyond the aims of the 'winter bird food' requirement but that's what they have said.

I’ll email and see if I get the same answer. I fear some of the questions I’ve asked have been answered differently by different RPA staff to other farmers. We’re all working with different guidelines in that case with plans that revolve around tens of thousands of pounds. I wouldn’t be entertaining such madness if there wasn’t the need for a break crop.

 

[Try to succeed]

Companion crop has to be established with or in an arable crop.. so your companion crop could be in a spring crop following a (spring sown) AHL2.

But then the option isn’t a goer if I can’t have my winter cereal preceding it.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

I emailed the RPA and have now had confirmation that you cannot plant crops such as s barley/potatoes/maize in the spring following AHL2 as it is a full year option.
I think this is a real shame as it rules out this option for tens of thousands of hectares imo.
I think the full year is beyond the aims of the 'winter bird food' requirement but that's what they have said.

Is this specifically after a Summer sown AHL2, after e.g. Winter Barley, as if it was Spring sown it would have done the Summer flowering and winter seed by late Feb?

 

[farmerm]

I’ll email and see if I get the same answer. I fear some of the questions I’ve asked have been answered differently by different RPA staff to other farmers. We’re all working with different guidelines in that case with plans that revolve around tens of thousands of pounds. I wouldn’t be entertaining such madness if there wasn’t the need for a break crop.

The RPA should have a page of FAQ's and answers, it would
a) save a lot of phone calls to the helpline for the same question and
b) ensure consistency..

Some who man the phones probably couldn't tell a legume cover from a crop of potatoes and wont be the same ones who make enforcement decisions.....

 

[Hindsight]

The RPA should have a page of FAQ's and answers, it would
a) save a lot of phone calls to the helpline for the same question and
b) ensure consistency..

Some who man the phones probably couldn't tell a legume cover from a crop of potatoes and wont be the same ones who make enforcement decisions.....

Eventually there will be a FAQ but not until the questions have been asked.

 

[Hindsight]

Is this specifically after a Summer sown AHL2, after e.g. Winter Barley, as if it was Spring sown it would have done the Summer flowering and winter seed by late Feb?

Looks like that is the case.