Digital Combinable Crop passports

willyorkshire · Nov 28, 2023

Clive said:
think a link to this thread would be useful feedback !

Need half a day to read it all. One observation would be that, currently, unless you wait for lorry to be on site, it's pretty much impossible to fill even a paper passport in.
1 You get a spread of dates when merchant may or may not pick up the commodity.
2 It may not be the haulier stated on collection advice - often subbed out.
3 Haulier may actually come early - often want to load day before or even Friday for Monday delivery. Is that legal?

We tend to print some off, fill in what we can and complete when lorry arrives. Prepopulating before printing can't be fully completed unless lorry on site.
So with digital, would this mean only filling in when loading commences? I can see why it's being proposed but in reality it'll be just another burden.
BUT I do have some sympathy with Clive's suggestion. May take even longer to get airborne!!

Clive · Nov 28, 2023

Spud said:
I have no issue with digital in theory, but on a practical level, what a monumental pita!! Rural broadband and phone signal is an absolute joke. More cost and hassle for us and more value to them. As usual. No thanks!

starlink solves that for £70pm - not a huge cost of doing business and one i believe defra should include in grant schemes for those that can’t get half decent broadband with sfi and tax etc now all being dependent upon internet

Luke Cropwalker · Nov 28, 2023

Clive said:
this being absolutely key ^^

It never ceases to amaze how many farmers will sell their soul for a free hat.

SilliamWhale · Nov 28, 2023

Luke Cropwalker said:
I was very sceptical about this, but I would back Clives' model where a digital passport replaces RT but the whole thing is 100% farmer controlled.

Well already it is not farmer controlled and has the wrong type of business' tentacles all over it so on that basis - no way.

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

SilliamWhale said:
Well already it is not farmer controlled and has the wrong type of business' tentacles all over it so on that basis - no way.

Agree. AHDB is certainly not farmer controlled, though it is farmer funded. Only in farming.

MrNoo · Nov 28, 2023

Clive said:
starlink solves that for £70pm - not a huge cost of doing business and one i believe defra should include in grant schemes for those that can’t get half decent broadband with sfi and tax etc now all being dependent upon internet

Yes, yet another cost when currently all I need is a pen and a printed piece of paper. Starlink isn’t as great as some make out, I tried it but found I had better t’internet from my phone on 4G

warksfarmer · Nov 28, 2023

Starlink is brilliant for us. 250-270mb down and 30-50mb up. So far (about 6 months) its been more reliable than the 4G/5G EE system we were using and the bog basic landline which was with sky. We are basically spending the same as we were before from the two systems but this one actually works well.

Clive · Nov 28, 2023

MrNoo said:
Yes, yet another cost when currently all I need is a pen and a printed piece of paper. Starlink isn’t as great as some make out, I tried it but found I had better t’internet from my phone on 4G

when i tried it it was utterly awesome - i have fast bb at home / office but still want starlink it was so much better - something must have been wrong with what you tried as it should work as well at the north pole as anywhere

cost wise i agree - but it should be subsidised for those that can’t get bb - much chefs for government to do that than wire up the country surely

internet is already a necessity to run a business with sfi and tax / paye online so passports don’t change that

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

Personally I can’t see a problem with a double sided A4 paper passport. Front side is existing passport layout. Reverse has a few more declarations and tick boxes and that’s all we should need as farmers to provide assurance. No RT, nothing else. I mean how difficult can it be? @Grass And Grain @Clive can’t BFU knock this up in an afternoon? Tell customers this is what they get in place of RT etc. Job done.

Clive · Nov 28, 2023

DrWazzock said:
Personally I can’t see a problem with a double sided A4 paper passport. Front side is existing passport layout. Reverse has a few more declarations and tick boxes and that’s all we should need as farmers to provide assurance. No RT, nothing else. I mean how difficult can it be? @Grass And Grain @Clive can’t BFU knock this up in an afternoon? Tell customers this is what they get in place of RT etc. Job done.

if only AIC didn’t have a monopoly control over our buyers ………… yes it would be simple

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

I use ee4g. It’s very good but I’m in a strong signal zone. And it’s now cheaper and more reliable than fibre. Maybe slower but more than adequate and a discount lumped in with my mobile.

Cropper · Nov 28, 2023

Clive said:
when i tried it it was utterly awesome - i have fast bb at home / office but still want starlink it was so much better - something must have been wrong with what you tried as it should work as well at the north pole as anywhere

cost wise i agree - but it should be subsidised for those that can’t get bb - much chefs for government to do that than wire up the country surely

internet is already a necessity to run a business with sfi and tax / paye online so passports don’t change that

Yes you do need internet in the office but if you’ve an outlying grain store and need to make a digital passport for an unexpected haulier, coming late afternoon when you were expecting them the next morning?

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

Clive said:
if only AIC didn’t have a monopoly control over our buyers ………… yes it would be simple

But ultimately we have control of product supply. It’s a poor do if we can’t use that fact to our advantage. I really can’t see us getting anywhere now without unilateral action but it will take time to build critical mass. Keeping working on it is all I can say. Ultimately it needs a coordinated walkout of RT by enough big farmers to make a difference.

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

Cropper said:
Yes you do need internet in the office but if you’ve an outlying grain store and need to make a digital passport for an unexpected haulier, coming late afternoon when you were expecting them the next morning?

There the “what3words” store location soon to be verified by the lorry driver as well. What a waste of time when it’s all mixed in a heap at the other end. Somebody needs to get a grip of the office and IT Charlie’s and tell them enough is enough.

Flat 10 · Nov 28, 2023

DrWazzock said:
There the “what3words” store location soon to be verified by the lorry driver as well. What a waste of time when it’s all mixed in a heap at the other end. Somebody needs to get a grip of the office and IT Charlie’s and tell them enough is enough.

And what if I change the store I decide to load from at the last minute? Because the loader is at the other farm or whatever, then it will be a panic despite the fact the wheat is all assured and grown by me. No one's business which store i load out of.

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

Flat 10 said:
And what if I change the store I decide to load from at the last minute? Because the loader is at the other farm or whatever, then it will be a panic despite the fact the wheat is all assured and grown by me. No one's business which store i load out of.

Somebody with real farming experience should have nipped this idea in the bud. But somehow there never seems to be any input from practical farmers or maybe they are just ignored. Even our RT assessor thought it was a stupid and unnecessary requirement that will cause all sorts of problems. Anybody with that kind of common sense gets shot down at the meetings though, apparently as he has been on several issues. Those at the very top just don’t seem to understand the mechanics of the job.

SilliamWhale · Nov 28, 2023

What are all these declarations they want? f**ks sake it's getting silly.

Resist

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

The fact is though that unless we as farmers come up with our own solution to assurance then we can’t really just sit and criticise AHDB, RT or NFU. I can’t see any harm in farmers producing a standard “passport plus” which would be our stake in the ground as to what we think is adequate and acceptable. So yes it might well be rejected by AIC but at least it’s a hard alternative and negotiating position rather than just hot air and moaning. This is exactly what @Luke Cropwalker is driving at in the Blue Tractor thread and he is right to a certain extent.

DrWazzock · Nov 28, 2023

I’d almost be cheeky enough to produce a second sheet to attach to the existing passport to send in with it as a declaration of conformity alternative to the RT sticker. They’d most likely bin it but it would make the point that we do have measures and controls in place to give “assurance” without needing RT.

JLLM · Nov 28, 2023

Its very easy, just keep using paper, if anyone questions it then you had no signal, battery flat etc, once 1 starts its the thin end.

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