Still missing the point then. Why should those "slow to catch on" farmers be in line for a bung but others can’t take it up because they live in a different place?
Steve Barkley at OFC
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
Daniel
Member
- Location
- Mildenhall, Suffolk
I haven’t seen quite as much self important fuss about OFC on twitter this year. Maybe the algorithm is protecting me.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
This is the biggest misconception out there. If you’ve got land that if you ploughed it and it baked out would take 14 passes with a power harrow ( been there, got the tee shirt ) and you still haven’t got a seed bed then you’ve got the greatest to gain from no till.
These soils benefit the most from having a much faster establishment system ( the only real reason I started ) it’s just you have to know when you can drill and more importantly when to stop. Getting an extra bung of cash or spending £100k on a drill isn’t the solution, changing your mindset is.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
It was a pleasure. There’s nothing more satisfying than having people round who are a bit skeptical at first and igniting a spark of enthusiasm. I often think your journey home would have been an interesting conversation.
in all honesty Simon if we hadn’t visited you that day i don’t think we would be farming today and TFF would probably have never started either - so thank-you
in 17yrs our farm is truly transformed in terms of fixed cost, margins, resilience, soil and very definitely environment
our soils are easy compared to yours which are the opposite end of the spectrum so if you can do it and we can do it i find it hard to believe that anyone with the right mindset and knowledge can’t also make it work
i don’t need payment ti make it viable but the public goods that it delivers are certainly worth payment
I know what you mean. It's not a one size that fits all in this instance. None of the options suit everybody perfectly.
We should remember that any reduction in fuel use alone should be welcomed without the added benefit of reduced soil wash etc even if not everyone can benefit from a payment from the RPA.
I can't establish a herbal ley and receive payments for it because NE tell me there's an historic feature on some parcels.
In fact one parcel is in a herbal ley and not receiving payments. That one parcel is worth nearly as much as a dd payment for me on my arable acres.
What's fair about that?
beardface
Member
- Location
- East Yorkshire
A mixture of dd and min till/conventional seems to work best here. Cover crop plus no insecticide and then 73 quid to dd it as we do now certainly makes spring barley more lucrative than a 2nd winter cereal even if there's a glut and it's only 120 quid a tonne
- Location
- Lincolnshire
We’ve moved to the kind of command and control state funded economy that the Soviet’s would have been proud of.
I’ve been direct drilling for 20 years under my own steam and never really expected help with it.
What is the taxpayer getting for any of this? Every single measure reduces production and helps force up food prices if imports should falter. Some of the more “ambitious” options are simply green money pits that greatly enrich the lucky few at the expense of the working man.
It’s a classic New Tory scheme. Channelling ever more taxpayers money to the richest in the land and setting groundwork for ever more wheeler dealer Ponzi carbon and natural capital trading schemes for which the man in the street will ultimately pay mightily on his mortgage, his shopping basket or energy bills while green paper traders prosper. All done under a virtue signalling green populist smokescreen.
But but but… No, it’s a scam.
Down with that kind of thing … whatever it is.
I’ve been direct drilling for 20 years under my own steam and never really expected help with it.
What is the taxpayer getting for any of this? Every single measure reduces production and helps force up food prices if imports should falter. Some of the more “ambitious” options are simply green money pits that greatly enrich the lucky few at the expense of the working man.
It’s a classic New Tory scheme. Channelling ever more taxpayers money to the richest in the land and setting groundwork for ever more wheeler dealer Ponzi carbon and natural capital trading schemes for which the man in the street will ultimately pay mightily on his mortgage, his shopping basket or energy bills while green paper traders prosper. All done under a virtue signalling green populist smokescreen.
But but but… No, it’s a scam.
Down with that kind of thing … whatever it is.
The Lords speaker sits on a wool sack. Material is therefore readily to hand when it is needed to be pulled over the proletariats eyeWe’ve moved to the kind of command and control state funded economy that the Soviet’s would have been proud of.
I’ve been direct drilling for 20 years under my own steam and never really expected help with it.
What is the taxpayer getting for any of this? Every single measure reduces production and helps force up food prices if imports should falter. Some of the more “ambitious” options are simply green money pits that greatly enrich the lucky few at the expense of the working man.
It’s a classic New Tory scheme. Channelling ever more taxpayers money to the richest in the land and setting groundwork for ever more wheeler dealer Ponzi carbon and natural capital trading schemes for which the man in the street will ultimately pay mightily on his mortgage, his shopping basket or energy bills while green paper traders prosper. All done under a virtue signalling green populist smokescreen.
But but but… No, it’s a scam.
Down with that kind of thing … whatever it is.
Domestic food production cuts are necessary: Profits must be maintained from plastic packaged processed fake food imports.
Pollution from offshore and off ground transport must hidden by giving a few pennies to the Peasants. The enviromental scapegoat smokescreen must be perpetuated
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I’ve no problem with direct drilling and carbon sequestration and those who wish to sell and those who wish to buy carbon credits on open markets.
I’ve no problem with nature reserves and those who wish to sell and buy natural capital. If they think it’s worth something then let them get on with it.
The thing I struggle to get my head around from a moral perspective is that the taxpayer is funding a lot of these schemes almost 100% but then the carbon sequestration is being sold for private gain. If the State was selling the carbon or just using it as offset then at least the taxpayer would see a benefit but the way it looks to me is that it’s a one way street for the taxpayer. They are forced to bank roll the schemes then forced to buy the sequestration while private operators in the middle make a profit.
It might well be legal and above board and I don’t blame farmers for maxing out on it but it just does not seem quite right when you look at the bigger picture. How is this apparent rip off justified?
I’ve no problem with nature reserves and those who wish to sell and buy natural capital. If they think it’s worth something then let them get on with it.
The thing I struggle to get my head around from a moral perspective is that the taxpayer is funding a lot of these schemes almost 100% but then the carbon sequestration is being sold for private gain. If the State was selling the carbon or just using it as offset then at least the taxpayer would see a benefit but the way it looks to me is that it’s a one way street for the taxpayer. They are forced to bank roll the schemes then forced to buy the sequestration while private operators in the middle make a profit.
It might well be legal and above board and I don’t blame farmers for maxing out on it but it just does not seem quite right when you look at the bigger picture. How is this apparent rip off justified?
The necessity for cheap food.
Let farmers bugger about with fiddly schemes but yet still sell their produce for a pittance in real terms.
Imported food is a cheap alternative for a minute,that is the bigger picture.
I don't agree with it all the same.
- Location
- Dorset/Wilts
That increase for the ahl2 option is certainly not going deter those planning on sowing after winter barley. Odd that the Legume fallow wasn't increased.
So presumably defra have a pot of money that needs to be dispersed to farmers. And I guess the increases are to stimulate a bit more of an uptake?
Ipso facto, what the chance of having an inspection and being made to return monies from failed option (obviously the thousands of acres of ahl2 drilled after wb)??
So presumably defra have a pot of money that needs to be dispersed to farmers. And I guess the increases are to stimulate a bit more of an uptake?
Ipso facto, what the chance of having an inspection and being made to return monies from failed option (obviously the thousands of acres of ahl2 drilled after wb)??
ollie989898
Member
Is there any money on offer for people growing proper break crops? You can't tell me the complete loss of OSR, linseed and legumes from arable farming these days hasn't harmed the environment. Now you're all growing wheat, barley or something to go in an AD plant?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Not that I know of. My beans in particular used to be buzzing with bees. Home grown protein as well. You’d have thought they were worth a bit as public goods.
Then there’s crops like lupins that could do with a leg up. Oddly if it’s productive it doesn’t seem to qualify.
ollie989898
Member
Not that I know of. My beans in particular used to be buzzing with bees. Home grown protein as well. You’d have thought they were worth a bit as public goods.
Used to like seeing beans they were always buzzing with insect life. Low impact crop, too. Not many sprays and good protein as you say.
wanton dwarf
Member
i’m sure 100% no till has many big environmental benefits on our soils / farm ( public goods worth £’s) and have various metrics that confirm that - it’s nice to see that investment ( in knowledge and equipment) finally valued
I think there is a very good chance DD is breeding resistance to Glysophate - just as Min Till bred resistance to Atlantis
I bet within a few decades we'll see Glysophate resistant weeds on DD farms
Nature promotes the strong - not seen a Weed resistant to a plough
This thread has me wondering what the point of the no-till payment is actually for? Those that don't no-till aren't persuaded to start as the payment isn't enough and they don't want/can't do it, and the zealots don't need it anyway. What is it's purpose other than to fill the lobbyists pockets and give more credence to their already smug position?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Glypho resistant weeds are already here to some extent. Cranesbill will shake off 6 litres here. Resistance started during the set aside years, spraying off at not quite high enough doses in May, which saw cranesbill survive and prosper here. So now we add 24d. Creeping thistle also now seems hugely resistant to most things.
I ploughed this year as I just couldn’t bring myself to apply stupidly high doses of chemical for autumn burn down. At least no chemical has been washed into the water here though we have had some erosion but not really much all things considered. The winter cereals have now largely stabilised the surface. Hundreds of acres of land sprayed off for DD are left with no crop on them, though last years stubbles are holding them together. But all that glypho and 24d went somewhere. Swings and roundabouts I suppose. I can’t get over excited about any particular technique. I prefer DD on balance for all the reasons discussed at length but it’s not a panacea here anyway. Past being too bothered about what other people do. It’s their business. Just observations.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Anyway, back to the OP, it’s definitely an ultra radical ecological political agenda the likes of which we have never seen before. And it’s probably largely thanks to Brexit.
Don’t know whether to be indignant or grateful. Interesting times.
Don’t know whether to be indignant or grateful. Interesting times.